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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 02:12pm
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Stop Sign

I've said for years that the stop sign is counterproductive and in many cases inflammatory.

This, from a meeting between the NBA Players and Officials Unions.

"One of the actions discussed was referees giving the so-called “stop hand” to players during disagreements. While this is taught to referees as a way to diffuse a situation, it has been taken as offensive by players who want to have more of an open back-and-forth. Overall, the sides would like more open discussion of various hand signals and techniques."


https://deadspin.com/report-part-of-...%28Deadspin%29
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I've said for years that the stop sign is counterproductive and in many cases inflammatory.

This, from a meeting between the NBA Players and Officials Unions.

"One of the actions discussed was referees giving the so-called “stop hand” to players during disagreements. While this is taught to referees as a way to diffuse a situation, it has been taken as offensive by players who want to have more of an open back-and-forth. Overall, the sides would like more open discussion of various hand signals and techniques."


https://deadspin.com/report-part-of-...%28Deadspin%29

Sports officials are both policemen and judges on the playing courts and playing fields. Giving the Stop Sign is like a judge banging his gavel down. Just my two cents. And I only give the Stop Sign to Coaches.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 05:06pm
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You know what's also disrespectful? Players yelling at refs and throwing their hands in the air.
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 05:41pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
You know what's also disrespectful? Players yelling at refs and throwing their hands in the air.
No it's not. It's only things that they don't like that count. Coaches and players are on another level when it comes to hypocrisy and stupidity.
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 05:46pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
You know what's also disrespectful? Players yelling at refs and throwing their hands in the air.
Exactly. And anytime I talk back to a player in the same manner they go whining to their coach.

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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 08:07pm
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My main problem with the stop sign is that some officials act like it's a universally effective tool. Not everything works the same for every official, and a lot of it depends on the coach you're dealing with. The idea that it fits in the holy grail of diffusing situations is ridiculous, yet it's often taught as the best way to deal with things.

Me? I don't use the stop sign because it doesn't work well for me and I wouldn't like it if someone showed me his/her hand to get me to shut up.
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 08:07pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
You know what's also disrespectful? Players yelling at refs and throwing their hands in the air.
So whack or warn them? The stop sign might work for you–it doesn't work for everyone.
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 08:47pm
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To me, it's inflammatory. "Talk to the hand."

If you like it, great. I prefer other tools.


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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 09:23pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
So whack or warn them? The stop sign might work for you–it doesn't work for everyone.
The stop sign works, it makes it clear that we are drawing the line in the sand.

Newsflash: people don’t like being told what to do. But that’s literally our job, and they need to get used to it.
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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 11:01pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
You know what's also disrespectful? Players yelling at refs and throwing their hands in the air.
It is amazing to me how they do that, then they think we are not supposed to say anything to them.

But it we T'd their ass every time they did that, we would again be the bad guys.

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Old Sun Feb 18, 2018, 11:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
My main problem with the stop sign is that some officials act like it's a universally effective tool. Not everything works the same for every official, and a lot of it depends on the coach you're dealing with. The idea that it fits in the holy grail of diffusing situations is ridiculous, yet it's often taught as the best way to deal with things.

Me? I don't use the stop sign because it doesn't work well for me and I wouldn't like it if someone showed me his/her hand to get me to shut up.
The times I have given it, it has resulted in a T. I like other tools that send a message and often most people have no idea I addressed this point of view.

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Old Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
To me, it's inflammatory. "Talk to the hand."

If you like it, great. I prefer other tools.
Agreed. I also think it's another example of camp speak. How many times is the stop sign taught by clinicians as the greatest technique ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The stop sign works, it makes it clear that we are drawing the line in the sand.

Newsflash: people don’t like being told what to do. But that’s literally our job, and they need to get used to it.
And if you don't use the stop sign to tell coaches and players what to do, you're not doing it right? Balderdash.

I can make myself clear in other ways. The stop sign is not the be-all and end-all that many officials act like.
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Old Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:20am
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Eye in the sky

The reason the stop sign is encouraged by many is because it shows up on film. If you have to assess a technical foul, you avoid the 'the ref didn't even warn me' debate with something visual. I realize that some on here will say warnings aren't their style, but in the area and levels in which I work, that progression step before a T is encouraged, unless the behavior is exceptionally public or personal.
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Old Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
The reason the stop sign is encouraged by many is because it shows up on film. If you have to assess a technical foul, you avoid the 'the ref didn't even warn me' debate with something visual. I realize that some on here will say warnings aren't their style, but in the area and levels in which I work, that progression step before a T is encouraged, unless the behavior is exceptionally public or personal.
HS comment only:

But now we have the official warning, which we put in the book, which really should replace the stop sign for those that use it.

Because the next stop after the official warning is a technical foul. Where would the stop sign actually fit?
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Old Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:43am
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Good point Rich.

I'd have to see the film, but I'd be willing to wager that during at least one of my bench conduct warning situations this season, after telling the book and turning to inform the coach, I used a 'mild' (palm and arm angled slightly towards floor) stop sign in conjunction with the verbal info they'd been warned. Not encouraging it, just thinking about it per this discussion.
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