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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Yeah. Why strive for an answer when we can all simply agree with your common sense?

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I quit because you in fact stopped "striving for an answer" and abandoned all connection with reality and reason in your striving to be right. I figured if it is that important to you to be right, I would give it to you. You're welcome.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:05am
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Originally Posted by rotationslim View Post
I quit because you in fact stopped "striving for an answer" and abandoned all connection with reality and reason in your striving to be right. I figured if it is that important to you to be right, I would give it to you. You're welcome.
No, me asking SOMEONE ELSE (the NFHS, your state association, your assignor, or another authority figure) to give us a definitive answer is not at all about me being right. On the other hand, you saying your common sense is to be taken above all else is most definitely about you being right.

Nor did you quit by putting my name in your post.

Reality is some people will look to sue or at least blame others for silly things like my aforementioned situation. Covering our asses is not dumb at all.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:08am
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I would think that cutting an arm or hand on the bottom edge of the unpadded backboard would be by far the most likely injury.
I'm not officiating such a contest. End of story.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:18am
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
Everybody asks what do the athletic directors or governing officials say.... but
I’m going to ask what would your lawyer say?

Not enforcing a safety rule is never a good idea. Exposes the officiating crew to liability if an injury occurs when ignoring a safety rule. .. the coaches agreeing doesn’t help with liabilities.. in fact based on what I have seen from the California Supreme Court .......others generally do have a duty not to increase the risk of harm beyond what is inherent in the sport. (Kahn v. East Side Union High School )

The California Supreme Court has also noted, in dicta, that those responsible for maintaining athletic facilities have a similar duty not to increase the inherent risks. With intercollegiate sports competition, the host college or university owes a duty to home and visiting participants alike not to increase the risks inherent in the sport. I suspect they’d apply it to high school sports....

I wonder if padding wasn’t available or could have been.. poly high carb vinyl pad ( whatever that is) may not have been available but something else that was reasonable....even then that may not absolve liability

For most girls games I wouldn’t worry, but above the rim play would concern me for boys...

Some food for thought from a different perspective.....
Very interesting. We officiated a DH earlier this winter where there were multiple slips due to moisture on the floor. I bet we called 6 travels due to it (kids hitting the floor). Multiple kids off the ball fell as well. I was worried I would slip while transitioning. I am guessing it was do to the weather outside (lots of snow), location of the entrance to the gym, and the sidelines being very close to the bleachers. The host school did everything they could to keep it dry but it was still and issue. The chances of a kid injuring themselves due to the moisture were much higher than the backboard issue we are discussing. I never thought about stopping the game and a lawsuit never crossed my mind.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:22am
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Very interesting. We officiated a DH earlier this winter where there were multiple slips due to moisture on the floor. I bet we called 6 travels due to it (kids hitting the floor). Multiple kids off the ball fell as well. I was worried I would slip while transitioning. I am guessing it was do to the weather outside (lots of snow), location of the entrance to the gym, and the sidelines being very close to the bleachers. The host school did everything they could to keep it dry but it was still and issue. The chances of a kid injuring themselves due to the moisture were much higher than the backboard issue we are discussing. I never thought about stopping the game and a lawsuit never crossed my mind.
Maybe because there's no rule specifying slippery floors?

I'm not criticizing those that would play. I'm merely trying to cover my ass and trying to do what's best when it comes to the rules and the interests of coaches, players, administrators, etc.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:22am
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Very interesting. We officiated a DH earlier this winter where there were multiple slips due to moisture on the floor. I bet we called 6 travels due to it (kids hitting the floor). Multiple kids off the ball fell as well. I was worried I would slip while transitioning. I am guessing it was do to the weather outside (lots of snow), location of the entrance to the gym, and the sidelines being very close to the bleachers. The host school did everything they could to keep it dry but it was still and issue. The chances of a kid injuring themselves due to the moisture were much higher than the backboard issue we are discussing. I never thought about stopping the game and a lawsuit never crossed my mind.
You should have. An NBA game was postponed last week for "moisture on the floor." Safety issues need to be taken seriously.

I can't stress this enough: game officials have two jobs--1. Enforce the rules of the game fairly, 2. Look out for the safety of the participants.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:28am
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Maybe because there's no rule specifying slippery floors?

I'm not criticizing those that would play. I'm merely trying to cover my ass and trying to do what's best when it comes to the rules and the interests of coaches, players, administrators, etc.

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Our pregame duties require us to inspect and approve the court.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:30am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You should have. An NBA game was postponed last week for "moisture on the floor." Safety issues need to be taken seriously.

I can't stress this enough: game officials have two jobs--1. Enforce the rules of the game fairly, 2. Look out for the safety of the participants.
I think you are correct.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Our pregame duties require us to inspect and approve the court.
I figured all the concerns happened during the game and weren't apparent during pregame.

BTW, I not saying you did anything wrong, just pointing out that the rule book doesn't specifically mention slippery courts while it clearly talks about the padding on the backboard.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:39am
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by bryanv21 View Post
i figured all the concerns happened during the game and weren't apparent during pregame.

Btw, i not saying you did anything wrong, just pointing out that the rule book doesn't specifically mention slippery courts while it clearly talks about the padding on the backboard.

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10-4
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:41am
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
10-4
I don't have my book with me (at work), but I assume I'm wrong. Sorry.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You should have. An NBA game was postponed last week for "moisture on the floor." Safety issues need to be taken seriously.

I can't stress this enough: game officials have two jobs--1. Enforce the rules of the game fairly, 2. Look out for the safety of the participants.
I cant imagine anyone disagreeing with that statement. That isnt what is in question in this thread. The issue is- whether or not the condition described is a threat to the safety of the participants. Just because other ref would use critical thinking skills to evaluate the risk, then decide to continue the game does not mean they dont value safety. It means their conlusion was slightly different than yours. Saying they somehow dont care about safety isnt fair.

If you really wanted to put some critical thinking skills on this, and not just rule by rote, you would take a holistic view of safety, and consider the added, and very real risks, of making the players and fans make a second four hour round trip by car or bus to attend the second attempt to get the game in is worth the possibility of a broken fingernail when a player scrapes the bottom of the backboard.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:44am
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I don't have my book with me (at work), but I assume I'm wrong. Sorry.

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I was acknowledging your comment as in 10-4 (roger that). Too funny.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:48am
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I was acknowledging your comment as in 10-4 (roger that). Too funny.
LOL.

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Girl shoots the ball, but it hits the bottom of the backboard and comes back down and breaks the girl's nose.

Parents sue on the grounds that if the required padding were there the ball wouldn't have come back so fast.

Ridiculous? Probably. Possible? Yeah. And I'd want to make sure my name wasn't attached to the lawsuit.

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Bryan:

A very good example of a lawsuit waiting to happen.

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