Player does not sit a tick...or does he?

[bucky]

A scoreboard clock displays tenths of a second only when the time is under 1 minute. With 4:23 on the clock, A2 subs into the game for A1. A2, an inbounder, is heavily guarded by B1. A2 throws the ball but it is immediately batted backwards by B1, hitting A2, who is still out of bounds. When the ball hit B1, the administering official chopped his arm for the clock to start and the timer started the clock. When the ball hit A2, the same official raised his hand to stop the clock and the timer stopped the clock. All of this action happened very fast and the clock still read 4:23. A1 reports to the table and wants to enter the game. The official sees that no time ran and disallows the sub. The timer's display, which always includes tenths of a second, does indeed indicate that some time ran. The timer provides the official with the information.

Allow the sub based on the timer's clock/info?

Allow the sub based on logic of some time must have transpired even though game clock did not change?

Disallow sub based on scoreboard clock not changing?

Other?

Any rule/case out there regarding this?

[Camron Rust]

The player can come in. The rule actually says they sub can come in only after the clock has properly started. It doesn't say that that it must run enough to register that some time had elapsed.

Time was chopped in on the touch....that is all that it takes.

[bob jenkins]

Even if the timer didn't physically turn the clock on/off, allow the sub in.

Treat the rule as "the clock started or should have started"

They should really change the rule to when the ball becomes live (preferable), or perhaps if there is a turnover. Imagine an offensive foul during a throw-in when no time runs off the clock. Coach now wants his big guy in for offense/defense, but no subs are allowed.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by AremRed

They should really change the rule to when the ball becomes live (preferable), or perhaps if there is a turnover. Imagine an offensive foul during a throw-in when no time runs off the clock. Coach now wants his big guy in for offense/defense, but no subs are allowed.

I don't have my rule book handy today, am I correct in saying that a timeout does NOT buy his way in either? That's only an injury situation correct?

Also, while I'm thinking about it, what about if team B had been called for a technical foul at some point. Could Team A coach sub that kid in now to shoot the shots?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I don't have my rule book handy today, am I correct in saying that a timeout does NOT buy his way in either? That's only an injury situation correct?

Also, while I'm thinking about it, what about if team B had been called for a technical foul at some point. Could Team A coach sub that kid in now to shoot the shots?

Yes.

No.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bucky

A scoreboard clock displays tenths of a second only when the time is under 1 minute. With 4:23 on the clock, A2 subs into the game for A1. A2, an inbounder, is heavily guarded by B1. A2 throws the ball but it is immediately batted backwards by B1, hitting A2, who is still out of bounds. When the ball hit B1, the administering official chopped his arm for the clock to start and the timer started the clock. When the ball hit A2, the same official raised his hand to stop the clock and the timer stopped the clock. All of this action happened very fast and the clock still read 4:23. A1 reports to the table and wants to enter the game. The official sees that no time ran and disallows the sub. The timer's display, which always includes tenths of a second, does indeed indicate that some time ran. The timer provides the official with the information.

Allow the sub based on the timer's clock/info?

Allow the sub based on logic of some time must have transpired even though game clock did not change?

Disallow sub based on scoreboard clock not changing?

Other?

Any rule/case out there regarding this?

The clock legally starts upon B1's deflection. That is all that is needed to bring the A1 back into the game. Matters not what is displayed on the clock.

[packersowner]

Related question - sorry for hijacking.

If A2 goes to replaces A1, then B2 goes to replaces B1. While that is happening Coach A realizes its not his arrow and prefers to have a different team on the court for a defensive matchup. Can Coach A pull back A2 if he hasn't been beckoned into the game? If he has, then Coach A could replace A2 with A3, just that A1 couldn't come in at this point because he hasn't "sat a tick". Am I correct on this one? Meanwhile, Coach B is trying to figure out what to do with B2 I saw this happen a few weeks ago while watching a game and I was trying to decide what was actually allowed vs. the rule.

Originally Posted by packersowner

Related question - sorry for hijacking.

If A2 goes to replaces A1, then B2 goes to replaces B1. While that is happening Coach A realizes its not his arrow and prefers to have a different team on the court for a defensive matchup. Can Coach A pull back A2 if he hasn't been beckoned into the game? If he has, then Coach A could replace A2 with A3, just that A1 couldn't come in at this point because he hasn't "sat a tick". Am I correct on this one? Meanwhile, Coach B is trying to figure out what to do with B2 I saw this happen a few weeks ago while watching a game and I was trying to decide what was actually allowed vs. the rule.

Correct, you can always pull back a player. If you pull them back before the beckon then they don't have to sit a tick. If they have been beckoned then you can still pull them back but they would then have to sit until clock ran.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct, you can always pull back a player. If you pull them back before the beckon then they don't have to sit a tick. If they have been beckoned then you can still pull them back but they would then have to sit until clock ran.

Yes, in layman's terms for subs, one is never required to "play a tick", only requirement is to "sit a tick."

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct, you can always pull back a player. If you pull them back before the beckon then they don't have to sit a tick. If they have been beckoned then you can still pull them back but they would then have to sit until clock ran.

And in this case, a timeout can't buy your way back in, correct?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The clock legally starts upon B1's deflection.

Just to further an extra thought....

More specifically, B1's legal deflection. Had B1 kicked the ball, then the official should not have chopped time, the clock should not have started (if it did then reset to previous time), and the sub (A1) could not enter.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by packersowner

And in this case, a timeout can't buy your way back in, correct?

Originally Posted by frezer11

I don't have my rule book handy today, am I correct in saying that a timeout does NOT buy his way in either? That's only an injury situation correct?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

Correct, same situation I was curious about earlier.

[BillyMac]

Under what situation may a substitute legally enter the game without sitting a tick?

A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not re-enter (with rare exception) before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock, however, a player doesn’t have to play a tick of the clock.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Under what situation may a substitute legally enter the game without sitting a tick?

A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not re-enter (with rare exception) before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock, however, a player doesn’t have to play a tick of the clock.

Are there a list of exceptions? I had an interesting play where B2 committed a foul and the table informed us that it was his fifth foul and he was replaced. After shooting 1 of 2 free throws the table informed us that it was actually his fourth foul and he was not disqualified, and the coach put him back in. Is there a rule available that lets him enter the game as no time has run off the clock?