Two scenarios involving an offensive player moving into the path defensive player

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Scenarios 1:

LBJ is on the FT line with the ball. Wade, being guarded by Kobe, runs across the paint with Kobe trailing him. LBJ moves into Kobe's path without giving Kobe the opportunity to avoid contact, attempts a jump shot and a collision occurs.

Illegal screen on LBJ? Or defensive foul by Kobe?

Scenario 2:

B1 moves in with 100% max speed to guard A1 (with or without the ball) and establishes a path that would avoid A1. A1 moves into B1's path without giving B1 the opportunity to avoid contact. Collision occurs.

(Note that B1 is never airborne. B1 is simply trying to guard A1 or contest A1's shot but A1 moves into B1's path that would have avoid contact.)

What do you have?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Scenarios 1:

LBJ is on the FT line with the ball. Wade, being guarded by Kobe, runs across the paint with Kobe trailing him. LBJ moves into Kobe's path without giving Kobe the opportunity to avoid contact, attempts a jump shot and a collision occurs.

Illegal screen on LBJ? Or defensive foul by Kobe?

Defender moved into and contacted the shooter without LGP. Defensive foul. The shooting action takes precedence over the screening action as there is no point to a screen if the shot is being taken and the contact is with the shooter.

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Scenario 2:

B1 moves in with 100% max speed to guard A1 (with or without the ball) and establishes a path that would avoid A1. A1 moves into B1's path without giving B1 the opportunity to avoid contact. Collision occurs.

(Note that B1 is never airborne. B1 is simply trying to guard A1 or contest A1's shot but A1 moves into B1's path that would have avoid contact.)

What do you have?

Unless B1's path was to get to another spot and cover another player (a screen), this is a defensive foul. B1 knew he/she was approaching A1 with the purpose of guarding A1. Unless A1 is executing a screen and preventing B1 from getting to another spot, B1 is the one that needs to give time/distance to A1, not the other way around. B1's speed is not relevant.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

[QUOTE=Camron Rust;833460]/QUOTE]

Wow, what a bummer for the defense.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Camron Rust,

This from NBA rules book:

COMMENTS ON THE RULES II.C.

A player must allow a moving opponent without the ball the opportunity to stop or change direction.

That right there should mean that an offensive foul should be assessed in my two scenarios, at least in the NBA it should.

What do you think?

[APG]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Camron Rust,

This from NBA rules book:

COMMENTS ON THE RULES II.C.

A player must allow a moving opponent without the ball the opportunity to stop or change direction.

That right there should mean that an offensive foul should be assessed in my two scenarios, at least in the NBA it should.

What do you think?

While the wording may be a bit ambiguous, that is specifically referring to a defender trying to take a charge on a opponent.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Camron Rust,

This from NBA rules book:

COMMENTS ON THE RULES II.C.

A player must allow a moving opponent without the ball the opportunity to stop or change direction.

That right there should mean that an offensive foul should be assessed in my two scenarios, at least in the NBA it should.

What do you think?

Also quote the rule covering the other player...you'll find a rule that will say both of them infringed....as if the action were the only action. However, it is not. You have to decide did A screen B or did B "guard" A.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

While the wording may be a bit ambiguous, that is specifically referring to a defender trying to take a charge on a opponent.

C. BLOCK-CHARGE
A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.

A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass.

A defensive player must allow a moving player the opportunity to stop or change direction when the offensive player receives a pass outside the lower defensive box. The lower defensive box is the area between the 3-foot posted-up marks, the bottom tip of the circle and the endline.

A defensive player must allow an airborne player the opportunity to land and then stop or change direction when the offensive player is outside the lower defensive box.

A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of an offensive player who receives a pass inside the lower defensive box regardless of his speed and distance.

A defensive player must allow an airborne player who receives a pass the space to land when the offensive player is inside the lower defensive box.

A player must allow a moving opponent without the ball the opportunity to stop or change direction.

The speed of the player will determine the amount of distance an opponent must allow.

If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has established a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored. A defensive player may turn slightly to protect himself, but is never allowed to bend over and submarine an opponent.


I am looking at this and it makes me think that ALL PLAYERS must allow a moving opponent without the ball the opportunity to stop or change direction.

[APG]

It's still referring to block/charge situations where a defender is attempt to get a legal guarding position in the path of an offensive player.

Restrictions on an offensive player are going to fall under screening principles which is later spelled out in the comment on the rules section.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Also quote the rule covering the other player...you'll find a rule that will say both of them infringed....as if the action were the only action. However, it is not. You have to decide did A screen B or did B "guard" A.

Ok. I understand about deciding the call. But which rule are you referring to?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Ok. I understand about deciding the call. But which rule are you referring to?

Screening vs Guarding. Both players are moving and both players are governed by rules that limit their movement at or before the time of contact. Both have violated those rules in both of those scenarios. You have to figure out which one applies to the situation. Is the offense screening the defender or is the defender interfering with the offense?

Imaging A2 and B2 running directly at each other and colliding. Who is the foul on....both are moving??

If B2 is guarding A2, then B2 is guilty of a foul. If A2 is screening B2, A2 is guilty of a foul. It can't be both. It depends on what else is happening around them...the context.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Scenarios 1:

LBJ is on the FT line with the ball.

I was about to ask what Lyndon Baines Johnson was doing playing basketball but then it clicked.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by welpe

i was about to ask why lyndon baines johnson was doing playing basketball but then it clicked.

+1

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Screening vs Guarding. Both players are moving and both players are governed by rules that limit their movement at or before the time of contact. Both have violated those rules in both of those scenarios. You have to figure out which one applies to the situation. Is the offense screening the defender or is the defender interfering with the offense?

Imaging A2 and B2 running directly at each other and colliding. Who is the foul on....both are moving??

If B2 is guarding A2, then B2 is guilty of a foul. If A2 is screening B2, A2 is guilty of a foul. It can't be both. It depends on what else is happening around them...the context.

Thanks. I understand everything.