Travel vs. Carry vs. Legal

[tankmjg24]

Had this situation occur in a game the other day and there is some debate within my group as to what the correct call is. Player drives to the basket for a layup. While doing so he takes the ball and puts it on his hip with his hand underneath. The progression was then left step, right step, layup.

Current viewpoints are that this is a legal drive to the basket, a carry, or a travel. Some believe that anytime the player puts the ball on his hip with hand underneath that this is a carry. Others believe that in order for a carry to be called that the player must dribble the ball again. A few feel that after he hips the ball that he then has one step and a layup, since he took 2 this is a travel.

Thoughts?

[Raymond]

Did he gather with both feet off the ground?

Was his right foot his pivot foot? If so, it was a travel. If not, it was legal.

For the "carry" crowd. A carry is an illegal dribble. How do they call an illegal dribble if the player is no longer dribbling the ball? By their definition, every time a player ends his/her dribble, it's a carry. Tell them to think about that for a moment.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

A carry is an illegal dribble.

I realize that palming/carrying is part of the dribble rule, but can't we also call palming/carrying as part of the travel rule?

Example: Player is dribbling and allows the ball to come to rest in one hand, taking three steps, with no additional dribble, while the ball is being carried/palmed.

In reality, we don't really need a carrying/palming rule. The travel rule, or the dribble rule, will take care of all types of carrying/palming.

There is no carrying/palming listed under Rule 9 Violations, but there is a signal on the signal chart. Odd?

[Camron Rust]

As the others said, it depends on what happens next. Trapping/pinning/catching the ball on the hip with the hand just end the dribble. If the player just stops there, you have nothing. If the player dribbles again, it is an illegal dribble that we classify as a carry for clarity. If the player moves his/her feet in excess of the limits for traveling, they have traveled. It is possible they continue to a shot without violating.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I realize that palming/carrying is part of the dribble rule, but can't we also call palming/carrying as part of the travel rule?

Example: Player is dribbling and allows the ball to come to rest in one hand, taking three steps, with no additional dribble, while the ball is being carried/palmed.

In reality, we don't really need a carrying/palming rule. The travel rule, or the dribble rule, will take care of all types of carrying/palming.

There is no carrying/palming listed under Rule 9 Violations, but there is a signal on the signal chart. Odd?

You are reading too much into this as the OPer is reading too much into the rule. It is really not that deep.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... with the hand just end the dribble ... carry for clarity ...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is really not that deep.

Agree. We really don't need the carry/palm signal. The travel signal, or illegal dribble signal, will suffice for any such situation where a "carry" occurs. Check out Rule 9 Violations, there is no carry/palm violation listed. As Camron Rust already pointed out, the palm/carry signal is just for clarity. Once the dribble ends, if there is another dribble, it's an illegal dribble; if there is not another dribble and the player moves his feet in excess of the prescribed limits, it's a travel.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. We really don't need the carry/palm signal. The travel signal, or illegal dribble signal, will suffice for any such situation where a "carry" occurs. Check out Rule 9 Violations, there is no carry/palm violation listed. As Camron Rust already pointed out, the palm/carry signal is just for clarity. Once the dribble ends, if there is another dribble, it's an illegal dribble; if there is not another dribble and the player moves his feet in excess of the prescribed limits, it's a travel.

Heck, if you want to go that route, you don’t need the travel or illegal dribble signal either—all you need is the signal there was a violation. (That’s the soccer philosophy of signals—just signal what will happen and get the game going.) As CR said, the signal for palming/carrying is just there for a bit of added clarity. But then, y’all don’t call it anymore, so maybe it is a pointless signal.

[BryanV21]

I don't believe the word "hip" is anywhere in the rule. Tell them to stop reading into things so much.

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