Travel vs. Carry vs. Legal

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

A carry is an illegal dribble.

I realize that palming/carrying is part of the dribble rule, but can't we also call palming/carrying as part of the travel rule?

Example: Player is dribbling and allows the ball to come to rest in one hand, taking three steps, with no additional dribble, while the ball is being carried/palmed.

In reality, we don't really need a carrying/palming rule. The travel rule, or the dribble rule, will take care of all types of carrying/palming.

There is no carrying/palming listed under Rule 9 Violations, but there is a signal on the signal chart. Odd?

[Camron Rust]

As the others said, it depends on what happens next. Trapping/pinning/catching the ball on the hip with the hand just end the dribble. If the player just stops there, you have nothing. If the player dribbles again, it is an illegal dribble that we classify as a carry for clarity. If the player moves his/her feet in excess of the limits for traveling, they have traveled. It is possible they continue to a shot without violating.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I realize that palming/carrying is part of the dribble rule, but can't we also call palming/carrying as part of the travel rule?

Example: Player is dribbling and allows the ball to come to rest in one hand, taking three steps, with no additional dribble, while the ball is being carried/palmed.

In reality, we don't really need a carrying/palming rule. The travel rule, or the dribble rule, will take care of all types of carrying/palming.

There is no carrying/palming listed under Rule 9 Violations, but there is a signal on the signal chart. Odd?

You are reading too much into this as the OPer is reading too much into the rule. It is really not that deep.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... with the hand just end the dribble ... carry for clarity ...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is really not that deep.

Agree. We really don't need the carry/palm signal. The travel signal, or illegal dribble signal, will suffice for any such situation where a "carry" occurs. Check out Rule 9 Violations, there is no carry/palm violation listed. As Camron Rust already pointed out, the palm/carry signal is just for clarity. Once the dribble ends, if there is another dribble, it's an illegal dribble; if there is not another dribble and the player moves his feet in excess of the prescribed limits, it's a travel.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. We really don't need the carry/palm signal. The travel signal, or illegal dribble signal, will suffice for any such situation where a "carry" occurs. Check out Rule 9 Violations, there is no carry/palm violation listed. As Camron Rust already pointed out, the palm/carry signal is just for clarity. Once the dribble ends, if there is another dribble, it's an illegal dribble; if there is not another dribble and the player moves his feet in excess of the prescribed limits, it's a travel.

Heck, if you want to go that route, you don’t need the travel or illegal dribble signal either—all you need is the signal there was a violation. (That’s the soccer philosophy of signals—just signal what will happen and get the game going.) As CR said, the signal for palming/carrying is just there for a bit of added clarity. But then, y’all don’t call it anymore, so maybe it is a pointless signal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Heck, if you want to go that route, you don’t need the travel or illegal dribble signal either—all you need is the signal there was a violation. (That’s the soccer philosophy of signals—just signal what will happen and get the game going.) As CR said, the signal for palming/carrying is just there for a bit of added clarity. But then, y’all don’t call it anymore, so maybe it is a pointless signal.

Called it last night in two different games. It is just not a carry when people claim it is a carry. People do not understand the rule.

Peace

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Called it last night in two different games. It is just not a carry when people claim it is a carry. People do not understand the rule.

Peace

Alas, I also think that too many refs don’t understand it as well. And yes, I realize that what is understood as a carry is different from when I played. From the comfort of the stands it is one of the least consistent calls—especially sub varsity and weaker varsity refs. And, of course, smart players will push the boundaries of what isn’t called.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Alas, I also think that too many refs don’t understand it as well. And yes, I realize that what is understood as a carry is different from when I played. From the comfort of the stands it is one of the least consistent calls—especially sub varsity and weaker varsity refs. And, of course, smart players will push the boundaries of what isn’t called.

The point is to call the obvious ones, just like any other violation.

But the problem is every time a player has his hands in a particular location, people yell about a carry when it clearly is not a carry or the ball never comes to rest. You do not want to be overly technical on any rule that will open up a can of worms by making those calls. And usually, it is typical to call those when there is an actual move that is used to try to get by a defender. Simply standing in one place is not going to draw a violation unless you want to be calling them all night. If you are talking about sub-varsity officials and what they call, we have an issue there alone. I do not expect sub-varsity officials to call anything as they should or they would not be working sub-varsity games in the first place.

Peace