The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 15, 2017, 10:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 186
Dunk in warmups then warning?

NFHS .. B20 dunks in warmups. Took care of all of that easy. B bench assistants are whiney and vocal and B head coach is up here and there coaching and really I think pushing it. I gave a bench warning once it became an issue that we could not ignore. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:03pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
NFHS .. B20 dunks in warmups. Took care of all of that easy. B bench assistants are whiney and vocal and B head coach is up here and there coaching and really I think pushing it. I gave a bench warning once it became an issue that we could not ignore. Thoughts?

By rule, a HC who has lost the use of the Coaching Box does not receive a warning for subsequent infractions of the Seat Belt Rule. If a HC, who has lost the use of the Coaching Box, commits a subsequent infraction of the Coaching Box Rule, he is to be charged with a DTF.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 15, 2017, 11:37pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Pregame Dunk, Does Written Warning Go Away ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
NFHS .. B20 dunks in warmups. Took care of all of that easy. B bench assistants are whiney and vocal and B head coach is up here and there coaching and really I think pushing it. I gave a bench warning once it became an issue that we could not ignore.
I'm not sure if Valley Man was referring to what I'm about to discuss, but here it goes anyway.

For a very short time during the preseason, our State IAABO board, and possibly other IAABO state boards, believed that a technical foul on bench personnel meant that that team lost the "privilege" of getting any "official written in the book warnings". NFHS set us straight. A pregame dunk, even though all team members are bench personnel during pregame, doesn't not fall under the parameters of the "official written in the book warning rule". That is, a pregame dunk is a technical foul on the team member, and an indirect technical foul on the head coach, who loses his coaching box privilege, however if later in the game someone on the bench gets a little unsporty, a written warning can be charged.

Of course, Valley Man's situation was more complex, involving a seatbelted coach standing (which does not fall under the warning rule), as well as unsporting comments by his assistants (which does fall under the warning rule).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Dec 15, 2017 at 11:40pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
The warning is for Articles 1b, 1b, 1d, 1d, 1f, 2, and 4 of Rule 10-5.

Pre-game dunking is article 1i. It's not part of the warning rule.

In the ply presented the coach could still get a warning
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:21am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The warning is for Articles 1b, 1b, 1d, 1d, 1f, 2, and 4 of Rule 10-5.
Article 1a: Bench personnel shall not disrespectfully address an official.
Article 1b: Bench personnel shall not attempt to influence an official's decision.
Article 1d: Bench personnel shall not disrespectfully address, bait, or taunt an opponent.
Article 1e: Bench personnel shall not object to an official's decision by rising for the bench and using gestures.
Article 1f: Bench personnel shall not incite undesirable crown reactions.
Article 2: Bench personnel shall not enter the court unless by permission of an official to tend to an injured player.
Article 4: Bench personnel shall not stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated (with exceptions: head coach, team member reports to table, timeout and intermissions, spontaneously react to outstanding play or acknowledge replaced players).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 16, 2017 at 06:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:25am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Coaching Box Privilege ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The warning is for Articles 1b, 1b, 1d, 1d, 1f, 2, and 4 of Rule 10-5.
Does it cover a standing head coach who has already lost his coaching box privilege for a pregame dunk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Article 4: Bench personnel shall not stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated (with exceptions: head coach, team member reports to table, timeout and intermissions, spontaneously react to outstanding play, or acknowledge replaced players).
I believe so (I may have been mistaken in a previous post).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 16, 2017 at 10:33am.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 10:46am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
The "Written Warning Rule" is to be used when the HC has not lost the privilege using the Coaching Box. Losing of the use of the Coaching Box is part of the penalty for a HC either receiving a TF for USC or for Bench Personnel receiving a TF that would also be charged to the HC as an IDTF.

Once the HC has lost the use of the Coaching Box there is no more need for a "Written Warning". The loss of using the Coaching Box is the HC's "Written Warning".

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Sat Dec 16, 2017 at 05:07pm. Reason: Corrected typos.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 11:02am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
NFHS .. B20 dunks in warmups. Took care of all of that easy. B bench assistants are whiney and vocal and B head coach is up here and there coaching and really I think pushing it. I gave a bench warning once it became an issue that we could not ignore. Thoughts?
Sounds like a good way to handle it to me.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
The "Written Warning Rule" is to be used when the HC has not lost the privilege suing the Coaching Box. Losing of the use of the Coaching Box is part of the penalty for a HC either receiving a TF for USC or for Bench Personnel receiving a TF that would also be charged to the HC as an IDTF.

Once the HC has lost the use of the Coaching Box there is no more need for a "Written Warning". The loss of using the Coaching Box is the HC's "Written Warning".

MTD, Sr.
Reference, please
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:29pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
My thought: The written warning is pointless.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 03:33pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Seatbelts Save Lives ...

Head coach A is seatbelted because somebody on his bench mouthed off (one of the listed reasons for a written warning) above the level of a written warning, and was charged (with no written warning) with a technical foul. The written warning rule is now longer in effect. The next occurrence of bench personnel, including the head coach, creating an unsporting act goes directly to a technical foul. No written warnings anymore. Hopefully, we can all agree on that.

Head coach B is seatbelted because somebody on his team dunked pregame (not one of the listed reasons for a written warning). The game starts and head coach B is standing and coaching in front of his seat (one of the listed reasons for a written warning). Does he get a written warning, or does he immediately get a technical foul?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 16, 2017 at 03:43pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 04:15pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
So y'all are saying that if a head coach has received an indirect technical the warning is no longer a possibility? Is this written somewhere?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 05:31pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
The "Written Warning Rule" is to be used when the HC has not lost the privilege using the Coaching Box. Losing of the use of the Coaching Box is part of the penalty for a HC either receiving a TF for USC or for Bench Personnel receiving a TF that would also be charged to the HC as an IDTF.

Once the HC has lost the use of the Coaching Box there is no more need for a "Written Warning". The loss of using the Coaching Box is the HC's "Written Warning".

MTD, Sr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Reference, please
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Head coach A is seatbelted because somebody on his bench mouthed off (one of the listed reasons for a written warning) above the level of a written warning, and was charged (with no written warning) with a technical foul. The written warning rule is now longer in effect. The next occurrence of bench personnel, including the head coach, creating an unsporting act goes directly to a technical foul. No written warnings anymore. Hopefully, we can all agree on that.

Head coach B is seatbelted because somebody on his team dunked pregame (not one of the listed reasons for a written warning). The game starts and head coach B is standing and coaching in front of his seat (one of the listed reasons for a written warning). Does he get a written warning, or does he immediately get a technical foul?
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So y'all are saying that if a head coach has received an indirect technical the warning is no longer a possibility? Is this written somewhere?

Let us go back in time to last year. B1 dunks in pre-game warm-ups. B1 is charged with a TF for dunking a Dead Ball. B-HC is charged with an IDTF and loses the use of the Coaching Box. Early in the 1st QT B-HC is standing in the Coaching Box coaching his team. By Rule, B-HC is charged with a DTF for an infraction of the Coaching Box Rule; no waring: WHACK!

Why would we treat the play in the above paragraph any different today than last year? We would not.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 06:12pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Let us go back in time to last year. B1 dunks in pre-game warm-ups. B1 is charged with a TF for dunking a Dead Ball. B-HC is charged with an IDTF and loses the use of the Coaching Box. Early in the 1st QT B-HC is standing in the Coaching Box coaching his team. By Rule, B-HC is charged with a DTF for an infraction of the Coaching Box Rule; no waring: WHACK!

Why would we treat the play in the above paragraph any different today than last year? We would not.

MTD, Sr.
The reason you might treat it differently today than last year is that the written warning was not an option at all at that time. Now it is an option. I see nothing which says receiving an IDTF changes this option.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2017, 06:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So y'all are saying that if a head coach has received an indirect technical the warning is no longer a possibility? Is this written somewhere?

no, we all are not saying that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warmups Valley Man Basketball 26 Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:49pm
Situation starting season-Dunk in warmups jritchie Basketball 20 Mon Nov 03, 2008 07:00pm
AAU Warmups IREFU2 Basketball 38 Sat Mar 10, 2007 08:08pm
WARNING!!! WARNING!! Annual off-topic baseball thread!! ChuckElias Basketball 583 Sat Jan 21, 2006 05:28pm
Pre-Game Warmups Dave Brost Basketball 3 Wed Oct 17, 2001 06:35pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1