Defender trying to take a charge starting to fall before contact

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

My priority in these situations is:

(1) to get them to stop flopping
(2) make a correct call

in that order.


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I understand this. I just think the first priority is not making an actively incorrect call. Which is what I think calling a block is here.

If we really wanted to get rid of flopping, we'd start calling Ts, but I realize that has to be a collective, directed effort.

[bondguy]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Hey BondGuy, I'm intrigued with the interpretation you cited. I'm trying to track the source of that down. Where did you get that from?

It was sent out last season by one of our local officials' associations in St. Louis. I will see if I can track down the ultimate source.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bondguy

It was sent out last season by one of our local officials' associations in St. Louis. I will see if I can track down the ultimate source.

If you do a search of this forum, the situation of this play was posted here in January of this year...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Thank you.

Those posts are showing everyone why the rule of verticality does not apply to this situation. And why your continued suggestions that I think otherwise are wrong.

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Fair enough, it sure looked like you were saying the player didn't have verticality, not that it didn't matter.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Rich

My priority in these situations is:

(1) to get them to stop flopping
(2) make a correct call

in that order.


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This may be the grey area being discussed. But in my mind flopping is falling when no contact occurs.IMO Leaning or falling away to prevent or minimize the amount of contact is not a flop. If they fall and no contact occurs you can make your judgement on whether they fell to buy a call or just misjudged the amount of contact coming or the ability of the offense to stop.

I'm just not comfortable a) rewarding the offense with foul calls for running into people and b) asking kids to take the full force of a shot to body or head while either bracing them selves or getting driven to the floor from a full height when that is not the intent of the rule.

The OP is talking about a kid who is going to get trucked no matter what. asking them to take that foul shot standing is the equivalent IMO of asking a kid to get hit by a swinging elbow to the head before we do something about the swinging elbow.

[hamnegger]

My son is a small high school player. He easily led his team in taking charges but was only about 50-50 on blocks/charges. Some he never established legal position but others were bc he fell back a bit bc he weighed 115lbs last year. The one time he stood still and took the entire shot he was knocked to the floor hit his head and blacked out. So just something to consider when you guys think kid has to "man up" to take a charge.

[JRutledge]

I find reasons to call charges, not the other way around. Most of the time they are trying to take a charge, I give it to them unless there is some reason they clearly are not there. But I default to the defender if I am going guess and most of the time I see the play anyway. Makes the game so much better. So slightly falling is not something I worry about as the rules allow for them to duck and brace for contact.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by hamnegger

My son is a small high school player. He easily led his team in taking charges but was only about 50-50 on blocks/charges. Some he never established legal position but others were bc he fell back a bit bc he weighed 115lbs last year. The one time he stood still and took the entire shot he was knocked to the floor hit his head and blacked out. So just something to consider when you guys think kid has to "man up" to take a charge.

When a player takes the solid contact he has a better chance of bouncing off.. landing on bottom..with head off of the floor. The player who starts falling early pretty much is guaranteeing that the other player will land on top of him. good chance head bounces a few times on court. taking it the proper way is much safer than starting to fall to soon.

[ballgame99]

Are we talking about a play like this?



Or one where the defender has fallen back to a 45 degree angle? If we are talking about the play above I would love for someone to tell me this isn't a PC all day everyday.

Video creds to JRut.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Are we talking about a play like this?



Or one where the defender has fallen back to a 45 degree angle? If we are talking about the play above I would love for someone to tell me this isn't a PC all day everyday.

Video creds to JRut.

The defender didn't prematurely fall back in this play. In fact, he didn't even lean back.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The defender didn't prematurely fall back in this play. In fact, he didn't even lean back.

Actually, at the time of contact, he is leaning back. It isn't dramatic, but his body is not straight up. It is about 10-15 degrees away from perfectly vertical.

[jeremy341a]

I don't understand the theory that the defense is putting the offense in danger. Why should the defense be required to absorb 100% of the force the offense is creating.

Although not normally thought of as backwards the definition of duck does not state a direction

duck2
dək/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: ducking
1.
lower the head or the body quickly to avoid a blow or so as not to be seen.
"spectators ducked for cover"

[deecee]

Noone is saying that a defender has to take 100% of the hit and/or has to be 90% perpendicular. The video above is a clear PC.

There are very clear examples in games where a defender starts falling so early that the contact, although would have been a PC in most cases had the defender "manned up", bails so early they are usually about 1/3 - 1/2 of the way down when contact occurs.

I'm sorry but I would go with a no call or block if i HAD to make a call 100% of the time on those calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, at the time of contact, he is leaning back. It isn't dramatic, but his body is not straight up. It is about 10-15 degrees away from perfectly vertical.

That is ultimately semantics, he knows he is getting run the (bleep) over when the contact took place.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is ultimately semantics, he knows he is getting run the (bleep) over when the contact took place.

Peace

I agree...was being sarcastic.