New Rule 4-48 and a Visiting Team Scorer at the Table

[Freddy]

Question arose today on a visiting team scorer at the table who had to be warned not to comment on the officials' calls and whether, given the phraseology of 4-34-2 ("Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s)..."), this justified a 4-48 warning to the coach.
A discussion here from 2009 seemed to suggest a consensus that a visiting team scorer at the table isn't "bench personnel" in the 4-34-2 sense, but not exactly the same as the (2-1-2) "official timer and scorer" either. If removal is needed, it's not a technical situation, rather a game management issue to resolve upon the officials' request.
Putting all this together, is it correct that a warning to a visiting scorer at the table does not merit a 4-48 warning to the visiting coach?

[BillyMac]

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

BM, thanx for your response, but it didn't address the question. ("Thank you, sir. May I have another?") The question was whether addressing the behavior of a visitors' scorer justifies a 4-48 warning to the head coach. Reference to the praseology of 4-48 and 4-32-4 are significant to the question, so I'll await the time when you have a chance to check those out in your rules book. Then let's see what you say.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The question was whether addressing the behavior of a visitors' scorer justifies a 4-48 warning to the head coach.

When at the table, he's part of the officiating crew, he's not bench personnel. I won't invoke the "warning" rule. However if I replace him and he moves to the bench, I can whack him to the ends of the Earth (adult personnel can be ejected), no more warning, indirect to head coach, who sits down.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When at the table, he's part of the officiating crew, he's not bench personnel. I won't invoke the "warning" rule. However if I replace him and he moves to the bench, I can whack him to the ends of the Earth (adult personnel can be ejected), no more warning, indirect to head coach, who sits down.

Billy:

If I have to remove Table Personnel that person is not going to remain in building.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If I have to remove Table Personnel that person is not going to remain in building.

Maybe if he's acting as an unsporting fan, sure, go for it. But if he's just not paying attention, or is incompetent for same other reason, why make him sit on a cold bus with the bus driver?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

Billy:

You are correct. One could and should consider him as an Assistant Scorer and you can and should have him or her removed from the gym by game management if necessary.

MTD, Sr.