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Old Sat Jul 29, 2017, 07:50am
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Travel On "Weird" Step Back Move

I have a question on a traveling violation or possible carrying/palming violation.

IS the move being taught in this video at 3:33 a traveling or carrying violation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaQb...ature=youtu.be

I feel that it violates this rule:

"The dribble ends when the dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands."

Even though he doesn't put his hand under the ball, I believe the ball "came to rest" in one hand as he took extra steps without dribbling the basketball again.

The argument I've received from other coaches and referees is that the dribble ends when the player puts the second hand on the ball. I believe this is just ONE WAY to terminate a dribble, not the only way.

If that was the rule for terminating the dribble, players could LEGALLY take five steps on a lay up, if they could perfect keeping their hand on the side of the ball while running.


Thoughts?
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Old Sat Jul 29, 2017, 08:38am
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I agree. Although if the shooter can pull this off at game speed, it will be hard to detect unless you are looking for it. I noticed on the 2nd move that the coach is instructing the player to "nudge" the defender. That is an offensive foul, with or without the push off. But, it would also be hard to detect at game speed. If you officiate the defender, you will see that nudge more easily. However, be prepared to take some grief from the coaches when you call traveling or the shoulder nudge, because this is what they are coaching.

I will say that, as a player, I would try to do these moves if I could get away with it. Creating separation is a real problem for a jump shooter.

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Old Sat Jul 29, 2017, 11:32am
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Yes, it (play 2) is a travel. The ball did come to rest in the hand ending the dribble.
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Old Sun Jul 30, 2017, 06:29pm
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The tag line on this video is for NBA and they have different travel rules than Fed/NCAA
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Old Sun Jul 30, 2017, 08:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
The tag line on this video is for NBA and they have different travel rules than Fed/NCAA
True, but I doubt any NBA players are watching his videos for tips. The target audience for these are HS players or below.
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Old Mon Jul 31, 2017, 02:01pm
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I don't think I would call that a travel at game speed. Unless the dribbler clearly puts his hand under the ball. In the linked video he is keeping his hand on top of the ball during the hesitation.
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Old Mon Jul 31, 2017, 02:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
The tag line on this video is for NBA and they have different travel rules than Fed/NCAA
Yeah - the NBA doesn't have any.
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Old Mon Jul 31, 2017, 03:46pm
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Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
I don't think I would call that a travel at game speed. Unless the dribbler clearly puts his hand under the ball. In the linked video he is keeping his hand on top of the ball during the hesitation.
Are you suggesting that hand position is the deciding factor?

Is it possible for the hand to be under the ball and not be illegal?

Is it possible for the hand to be on top of the ball and be illegal?
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Old Tue Aug 01, 2017, 09:05am
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At 3:50, the instructor makes the point about when the ball can be picked up to establish the correct pivot foot to make this play legal. If the players make the move as instructed, it's not a travel. Obviously when he demonstrates the play at half speed he is holding the ball much sooner. But I believe to answer the original question, this move is not necessarily a travel.
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Old Tue Aug 01, 2017, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Are you suggesting that hand position is the deciding factor?

Is it possible for the hand to be under the ball and not be illegal?

Is it possible for the hand to be on top of the ball and be illegal?
When has a dribble ended? When a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands. or b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands. So yes, hand position is a significant factor. It is hard for a ball to "come to rest" in a hand that is above the ball. Now one can "palm/carry" a ball with your hand on top, but that would mean you are exerting some sort of control over the ball to make it do something other than its normal bouncing motion. In the play in question the dribbler doesn't do anything with the ball that would meet either of those criteria. He let's the ball's natural bounce hang in the air while he creates space with his feet before ending the dribble by grabbing it with both hands. If he were to let the ball hang in the air with his hand under the ball it would be much easier to rule that the dribble had ended and therefore he was traveling.

All I'm saying is if I see this move at full speed and the dribbler keeps his hand above the ball I ain't calling it.
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Old Tue Aug 01, 2017, 12:02pm
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I do not have a travel based on the instructors demonstration of the move at 4:10.
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