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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 13, 2017, 05:51am
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Let's Put This To Bed ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The citation in the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook (2017-2018) requiring state approval for padded protective headbands is clear, unambiguous, and definitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
JRutledge: If you have a few extra minutes could you please post the exact wording used in the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook (2017-2018) regarding such devices (padded protective headbands)?
I would still like to see the actual wording of the citation. Is it generic to all medically necessitated head coverings, or specific to padded protective headbands, including one type that almost looks like a regular legal headband, just a little more padded?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 05:56am.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 13, 2017, 07:23am
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Only 3 posts in a row, you're not obsessing Billy.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 13, 2017, 07:37am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Only 3 posts in a row, you're not obsessing Billy.
I blame whoever it was who commented on how slow the board was. Sometimes, slow is better than the alternative.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 01:46am
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New Dance Craze ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Only 3 posts in a row, you're not obsessing Billy.
One was a "bump".
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 09:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I would still like to see the actual wording of the citation. Is it generic to all medically necessitated head coverings, or specific to padded protective headbands, including one type that almost looks like a regular legal headband, just a little more padded?
It is not just the wording, it is the picture. And if you want to see everything, go buy the book. Been moving and really do not have the energy to post this so that you can see something that has already been addressed in previous years. Seems like you are the main one worried about this. I hope you get block-charges right as much as you spend time on this very specific situation.

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  #81 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 05:53pm
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Background ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Seems like you are the main one worried about this.
You live in a state where your referee association, and/or your state interscholastic sport governing body (perhaps independent of the NFHS, perhaps not) made padded protective headbands illegal. No fuss. No bother. No mess. Crystal clear. (I still question how the padded protective headband that pretty much looks like a regular headband (a little puffier) can be made illegal, but that's just my professional curiosity.)

I live in a state that unilaterally (independent of the NFHS, and independent of IAABO International) made padded protective headbands legal, with no color restrictions (like knee braces). That was several years ago and only in Connecticut (we call stuff like this "Connecticut Only Rules And/Or Mechanics" (there are just a few)).

Last year IAABO International made an interpretation that padded protective headbands were legal, with no color restrictions, I believe, independent of NFHS rules. This IAABO interpretation was, obviously, only for games officiated by IAABO members.

While I was preparing an educational article regarding equipment restrictions, I came up against these conflicting (IAABO vs. NFHS) interpretations, so I've been trying sort this out. I do not want my article published unless I can back up everything that I've written in the article. I'm not "worried" about the rule/interpretation, I'm "worried" about my professional reputation as a basketball official educator after my article is published.

Hopefully, I'll get some closure from my local interpreter after he attends the NFHS Interpretation Meeting in Indianapolis on September 21, 2017. After that all should be the same under both NFHS and IAABO rules/interpretations, or at least, IAABO will acknowledge that its interpretation is in conflict with NFHS rules.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 05:57pm.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:01pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
You live in a state where your referee association, and/or your state interscholastic sport governing body (perhaps independent of the NFHS, perhaps not) made padded protective headbands illegal. No fuss. No bother. No mess. Crystal clear. (I still question how the padded protective headband that pretty much looks like a regular headband (a little puffier) can be made illegal, but that's just my professional curiosity.)
Our local official's association that I belong to have no "interpretation" role in our state. The IHSA is the only body that can give an official interpretation. Even as a State Clinician, we only go by what we are told to do or can go to our Head Clinician for clarification as needed. But the IHSA already ruled on this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I live in a state that unilaterally (independent of the NFHS, and independent of IAABO International) made padded protective headbands legal, with no color restrictions (like knee braces). That was several years ago and only in Connecticut (we call stuff like this "Connecticut Only Rules And/Or Mechanics" (there are just a few)).

Last year IAABO International made an interpretation that padded protective headbands were legal, with no color restrictions, I believe, independent of NFHS rules. This IAABO interpretation was, obviously, only for games officiated by IAABO members.
Well, take that up with your local association. Not sure why you are asking the NF to rule on something they have already seemed to rule on. The NF is not likely to change or add more to what they have already stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
While I was preparing an educational article regarding equipment restrictions, I came up against these conflicting (IAABO vs. NFHS) interpretations, so I've been trying sort this out. I do not want my article published unless I can back up everything that I've written in the article. I'm not "worried" about the rule/interpretation, I'm "worried" about my professional reputation as a basketball official educator after my article is published.
Fair enough, but this was already discussed here. Maybe you need to contact your higher ups and not keep whining here? I, me and we have told you what we know. If you are that concerned, it is time to pick up the phone or send an email to the people that are over your association. This has always been my issue with IAABO and never join them if you cannot get something this simple clarified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Hopefully, I'll get some closure from my local interpreter after he attends the NFHS Interpretation Meeting in Indianapolis on September 21, 2017. After that, all should be the same under both NFHS and IAABO rules/interpretations, or at least, IAABO will acknowledge that its interpretation is in conflict with NFHS rules.
I am sure he has more to worry about than this issue. BUT if he doesn't, let him tell you what you need to know. But otherwise, we are not in a position to tell you any more than we know.

Peace
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 07:20pm
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Check, Check, Check ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... take that up with your local association ... contact your higher ups ... send an email to the people that are over your association ... he has more to worry about than this issue.
My article will go far beyond my local association, it will go out to thousands (200 local boards in 38 states) of IAABO members, so the interpretation must go beyond local.

That was the purpose of my most recent posts, to let Forum members know, especially those who are IAABO members, that my local interpreter will first be addressing this issue with IAABO International, and then he will address it with the NFHS. If that's not higher ups then I don't know what a higher up is. I have personally contacted the Executive Director of IAABO to discuss the matter which will be on the agenda and be discussed at the IAABO Fall Seminar over the next few days. And my local interpreter is anxious to come up with a solid, hopefully single, interpretation regarding this issue, he's a great interpreter and educator.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:30pm.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 14, 2017, 08:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My article will go far beyond my local association, it will go out to thousands (200 local boards in 38 states) of IAABO members, so the interpretation must go beyond local.

That was the purpose of my most recent posts, to let Forum members know, especially those who are IAABO members, that my local interpreter will first be addressing this issue with IAABO International, and then he will address it with the NFHS. If that's not higher ups then I don't know what a higher up is. I have personally contacted the Executive Director of IAABO to discuss the matter which will be on the agenda and be discussed at the IAABO Fall Seminar over the next few days. And my local interpreter is anxious to come up with a solid, hopefully single, interpretation regarding this issue, he's a great interpreter and educator.
Why don't you just write the article just on what you know? Seems simple enough. Then if they come out later with an interpretation, that can be noted? Is this really that hard?

Peace
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 15, 2017, 05:41am
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Two Steps Ahead Of You ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Why don't you just write the article just on what you know?
I'm way ahead of you.

I was all set to do that with the following line:

IAABO has determined that padded protective headbands (often called concussion headbands), are legal and, like knee braces, are under no color restrictions.

The Executive Director of IAABO wanted to change that to:

Padded protective headbands (often called concussion headbands), are legal and, like knee braces, are under no color restrictions.

I refused his edit and pointed out the conflict in the NFHS and IAABO interpretations. He decided to wait until after the IAABO Fall Seminar (occurring now) and the NFHS Interpretation Meeting in Indianapolis on September 21, 2017, for clarification on this issue. My local interpreter, as a member of the Education Committee, will be leading the charge on this clarification. When the dust clears, either all should be the same (one way or the other) under both NFHS and IAABO rules/interpretations, or IAABO will acknowledge that its interpretation is in conflict with NFHS rules.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:49am.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 08:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
You live in a state where your referee association, and/or your state interscholastic sport governing body (perhaps independent of the NFHS, perhaps not) made padded protective headbands illegal. No fuss. No bother. No mess. Crystal clear. (I still question how the padded protective headband that pretty much looks like a regular headband (a little puffier) can be made illegal, but that's just my professional curiosity.)

I live in a state that unilaterally (independent of the NFHS, and independent of IAABO International) made padded protective headbands legal, with no color restrictions (like knee braces). That was several years ago and only in Connecticut (we call stuff like this "Connecticut Only Rules And/Or Mechanics" (there are just a few)).

Last year IAABO International made an interpretation that padded protective headbands were legal, with no color restrictions, I believe, independent of NFHS rules. This IAABO interpretation was, obviously, only for games officiated by IAABO members.

While I was preparing an educational article regarding equipment restrictions, I came up against these conflicting (IAABO vs. NFHS) interpretations, so I've been trying sort this out. I do not want my article published unless I can back up everything that I've written in the article. I'm not "worried" about the rule/interpretation, I'm "worried" about my professional reputation as a basketball official educator after my article is published.

Hopefully, I'll get some closure from my local interpreter after he attends the NFHS Interpretation Meeting in Indianapolis on September 21, 2017. After that all should be the same under both NFHS and IAABO rules/interpretations, or at least, IAABO will acknowledge that its interpretation is in conflict with NFHS rules.
So what if NFHS and IAABO are not the same? Publish what applies to IAABO and your state.

Or, don't address the subject at all in your article. No one will notice or care that it is not addressed.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 04:58pm
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Thousands ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Publish what applies to IAABO and your state.
My article will go far beyond my state association, it will go out to thousands (200 local boards in 38 states) of IAABO members.

It's the IAABO International Executive Director who wants to edit my article, and he wants to wait until the NFHS Interpretation Meeting in Indianapolis on September 21, 2017, for further clarification. I was content to just call it an IAABO "Only" interpretation.
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