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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 09:22am
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T-Worthy?

Two week BV summer league, fairly competitive, since kids view this as the first tryouts for next season. Two-person crew. Team A down by one, 45 seconds to go. I am administering a one and one. A1 misses free throw, but B1 clearly enters the lane too early, and I call the violation. No complaints. A1 then makes both. Now six seconds left, A up by two, at the line, shooting two. I am administering. Coach A sends the other four players into the BC. A1 makes first, misses second, but gets his own rebound and is fouled with five seconds left. Fans, team B, and Coach B all yelling that the shooter entered the lane too soon. Partner comes in to talk with me, asking if I saw the violation. I said no (but thought to myself “why is he asking ME if I saw it?”). As I begin to administer the two bonus free throws, B1 says to me, calmly, not nasty at all “Are you only going to call those violations on us?” I let it go, but driving home, had second thoughts.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 09:47am
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It is summer. I cannot think of many reasons to give Ts during summer unless their actions are over the top. Secondly it is summer, which means that my comments about things during the game are going to be longer and often more direct. So I would have told that kid to basically, "It is in your best interest to play basketball" on some level. It is summer, I do not get all worked up over actions because I will give them the straight truth during this time. The summer is a glorified practice here. We hardly never do anything like the regular season as we are working and playing multiple games in a row. But that is here, if your place is much more strict or formal, then I guess you would have to decide if that was going to make the game better. Even in a real game I likely would have just put the player in their place without a T.

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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Two week BV summer league, fairly competitive, since kids view this as the first tryouts for next season. Two-person crew. Team A down by one, 45 seconds to go. I am administering a one and one. A1 misses free throw, but B1 clearly enters the lane too early, and I call the violation. No complaints. A1 then makes both. Now six seconds left, A up by two, at the line, shooting two. I am administering. Coach A sends the other four players into the BC. A1 makes first, misses second, but gets his own rebound and is fouled with five seconds left. Fans, team B, and Coach B all yelling that the shooter entered the lane too soon. Partner comes in to talk with me, asking if I saw the violation. I said no (but thought to myself “why is he asking ME if I saw it?”). As I begin to administer the two bonus free throws, B1 says to me, calmly, not nasty at all “Are you only going to call those violations on us?” I let it go, but driving home, had second thoughts.
I doubt I would have given a T here even in a regular season game.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 12:54pm
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I doubt I would ever whack for that. However, the fact that it is summer ball would make my tolerance lower, not higher.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 01:06pm
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Not worth a T...maybe a quick response, but not a T.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 01:08pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I doubt I would ever whack for that. However, the fact that it is summer ball would make my tolerance lower, not higher.
I agree and also think that summer ball is a good time for lessons: depending on the tenor of the game, I might quietly let the kid know that questioning an official's integrity is a bad idea.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 04:05pm
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It Could Happen, But ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Coach A sends the other four players into the BC. A1 makes first, misses second, but gets his own rebound and is fouled with five seconds left. Fans, team B, and Coach B all yelling that the shooter entered the lane too soon. Partner comes in to talk with me, asking if I saw the violation.
Sorry, but I have to ask this. The (assuming) four defensive players in marked lane spaces may move into the lane when the ball is released by the free throw shooter. The shooter must wait until the ball hits the rim before entering the lane. With four defensive players getting a "head start", I find it hard to believe that the free throw shooter got his own rebound without violating unless it was a crazy (line drive hits rim and bounces straight back to the shooter) shot, especially if at least one of the defensive players was boxing out the shooter. Was it a "crazy line drive" shot? Or, for some reason, did the four defenders not realize that they could enter on the release, or did they just get lazy because they figured they had the shooter outnumbered?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Jun 16, 2017 at 04:09pm.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:10pm
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It wasn't a line drive, just a regular missed shot that he rebounded near the rim. I am sure the four defenders got complacent, but if I had to guess, I would say that the shooter violated.
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Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 05:28pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Sorry, but I have to ask this.
While it shouldn't happen, it happens often enough that it shouldn't really raise a question.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 07:49pm
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A better question. Why are there all the people here with birthdays. That is amazing.

Peace
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 16, 2017, 11:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Two week BV summer league, fairly competitive, since kids view this as the first tryouts for next season. Two-person crew. Team A down by one, 45 seconds to go. I am administering a one and one. A1 misses free throw, but B1 clearly enters the lane too early, and I call the violation. No complaints. A1 then makes both. Now six seconds left, A up by two, at the line, shooting two. I am administering. Coach A sends the other four players into the BC. A1 makes first, misses second, but gets his own rebound and is fouled with five seconds left. Fans, team B, and Coach B all yelling that the shooter entered the lane too soon. Partner comes in to talk with me, asking if I saw the violation. I said no (but thought to myself “why is he asking ME if I saw it?”). As I begin to administer the two bonus free throws, B1 says to me, calmly, not nasty at all “Are you only going to call those violations on us?” I let it go, but driving home, had second thoughts.
No T for me. This would get a smart-ass response like "Nope." or "If you keep doing them, yeah."
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 17, 2017, 05:28am
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A violation by the FT shooter is the Trail's responsibility. As you were Lead, it would have to be blatant for you to pick this up. What was your partner doing during this FT?

My response to the kid would have been that I'm watching the guys down here (most of the lane spaces) and would have to ask my partner about whatever the shooter did.
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Old Sat Jun 17, 2017, 09:12am
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The Lead ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
A violation by the FT shooter is the Trail's responsibility. As you were Lead, it would have to be blatant for you to pick this up.
Sorry ChuckS. I overlooked the part about you being the lead. I should not have asked you for the particulars of the situation. Sorry.

The lead must have some information about the release to monitor his own primary. Sometimes one can see outside one's primary out of the corner of one's eye to offer some help if, and only if, asked.

("If, and only if": My high school mathematics teacher, Mr. Madden, would be proud that I remembered that. Just don't ask me what it has to do with mathematics, but I know that it does.)
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Old Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
A violation by the FT shooter is the Trail's responsibility. As you were Lead, it would have to be blatant for you to pick this up. What was your partner doing during this FT?
Unfortunately, I think his eyes were elsewhere. That's the only reason I can think of, why he would ask me for help on that call.
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Old Sat Jun 17, 2017, 11:36am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Sorry ChuckS. I overlooked the part about you being the lead. I should not have asked you for the particulars of the situation. Sorry.
No problem at all!!
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