Offseason Discussion: TCOB

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Every once in awhile I hear veteran officials make statements such as, "I can count on one hand the number of T's I've issued in my career." I've always thought of it as a self-righteous, holier-than-thou statement that really should be interpreted as, "I'm too scared to take care of business and penalize misbehavior."

What are your thoughts on statements like these, and the overall thought process of deciding when to TCOB?

There are two ways to take that statement, one is they call T's unless its so bad that they can't not(double negative intended) call a T. The other is that the way you carry yourself and handle coaches that the odds of situations that would lead to a T being called are pretty low.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

... the way you carry yourself and handle coaches that the odds of situations that would lead to a T being called are pretty low.

Well worded SNIPERBBB.

To reiterate what I posted earlier. Just like the three most important factors in selling real estate are location, location, and location; the three most important factors in game management, and handling coaches, are experience, experience, and experience.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

There are two ways to take that statement, one is they call T's unless its so bad that they can't not(double negative intended) call a T. The other is that the way you carry yourself and handle coaches that the odds of situations that would lead to a T being called are pretty low.

I have a rep for being an a-hole w/coaches but I rarely dole out T's to them. I tend to engage them at their level. Sometimes I even tell them I'm addressing them in the same manner they are addressing me. It usually gets the point across.

[BigT]

Not trying to mess with anyone. I wonder if today's coaches and their behavior are a little different than 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

What they say and how they treat some officials. I like to talk about and hear how you guys handle different behaviors and things said. I enjoy reading in these forums. Game situation, coach says X I say Y. I like it or I didnt like it, etc.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigT

Not trying to mess with anyone. I wonder if today's coaches and their behavior are a little different than 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

What they say and how they treat some officials. I like to talk about and hear how you guys handle different behaviors and things said. I enjoy reading in these forums. Game situation, coach says X I say Y. I like it or I didnt like it, etc.

I have been doing this for over 20 years and coaches have always been jerks. They were jerks before that. We just have more cameras and focus on this interaction in the last 10 years or so where it there is HD TV and more camera angles and cameras just on coaches when before we hardly heard interactions. I have heard those that worked games with the long time UCLA coach John Wooden and Wooden apparently would yell at officials through his programs (curled up). He would say many bad things to them but coaches did not rant and rave on the sidelines openly as they do today. But the myth of Wooden is that he hardly said anything and was mostly a nice guy.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigT

I wonder if today's coaches and their behavior are a little different than 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

Thirty-six years for me. Back in ancient times, coaches seemed to coach longer, and have more experience than today's coaches. These old timers really knew how to "work" officials. It was like death by a thousand small cuts. They wouldn't go crazy, or fly off the handle, but would just constantly make little digs about your performance. But by the end of the game, you were sick and tired of their comments, but they never seemed to cross the line into technical foul, or ejection, territory (unless they purposely wanted to, i.e., to get their players, or fans, fired up).

The young whipper snapper coaches of today have no understanding of the art of how to "work" officials, which is probably a good thing. They just go nuts when they feel the official has erred, say the first thing that pops into their heads, which is usually the wrong thing to say to an official, which makes the technical foul easy to charge.

[Pantherdreams]

Lots of interesting stuff here:

*To the initial point you need to take care of business when business needs to be taken care of. The valid counter argument to that concern is you will occasionally have a coach that falls out the crazy tree no matter what you do, but that if you are professional, experienced and work with coaches there won't be any T situations that escalate from a manageable situation or manageable people.

*There is some validity IMO re: the difference between coaching eras. Between prevalence of club ball and changing culture around sports, the length of a coaches tenure and the type of person you have coaching is often different today. In the past most school coaches were teachers who coached to balance out income or because they were committed to the school, community in the long haul. They also had their careers tied to kids, public service etc. So their experience, accountability, and general values would be very different from someone who is just coaching basketball, or someone who's day job is a lawyer/day trader/sales rep etc. Lack of long term investment, relationship building and educational values impacts the type of role models and coaches we have and should expect.

*The flip side of the differences is you've got a lot more career coaches now. People who are trying to climb the ladder or maintain their status as coach because that is their career or families lifestyle. They are less likely to accept officials who walk in with an attitude of its just an X game, or officials who impose their value set on a particular level/gender/style of play. These coaches will on the other hand be very aware of public perception and their position so will make decisions based on that.

*Finally as always there are generational differences. We see it in the discussions on ESPN about players and legacy and see it in the gym. You've got a modern game being more and more driven by stats, analytics and stars. That trickles down whether we like it or not. Coaches and their players are going to be less concerned about the rightness or wrongness of a call relative to managing the game or keeping the game played a certain way. The impact on the record, stats, or their star will drive their emotive responses.

[rockyroad]

Personally, I called WAY more Coach T's in my first 10 years than in my last 10 years (not telling how many years were in between those)...a combo of two reasons, imho: 1) Coaches got to know me and what they could/could not do or say, and 2) I learned how to talk with angry coaches in a way that could often diffuse the situation. I have never been a fan of the "I have only called____ T's" as an indicator of how "good" an official is or isn't.

[Mregor]

What's the big deal with a T? It's just a foul. Don't count them, don't care. Tossing is a different animal to me. Not that I count them, but I can probably recall most because of the intensity of the situation, not because of the act of tossing a coach. If I have to T a coach, I do. It's not personal; just a tool to correct unacceptable behavior. I say that but I admit it's an emotional situation most of the time and it's not possible for me to take "personal" out of the situation all the time. I have less tolerance when the games have less meaning i.e. summer leagues vs. varsity conference play.