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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
So between the real job and ample amounts of reading, I'm still not seeing much as far as correct/incorrect ruling on the personal foul followed by the F1.

While I was watching the game, that ruling just didn't seem right. Can someone help me out?

We all know what they called and how it was administered.

My questions - After the personal foul, the ball becomes dead, at that moment, any contact that is illegal and excessive would have to become a dead ball contact technical foul. Is that correct or incorrect? If administered as a personal foul and then a dead ball contact, they would shoot the personal foul first (if in bonus), then the dead ball contact, with the ball being awarded at the division line for a throw in?

Sorry if it has already been discussed in this thread, I just haven't found it yet.

Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure this year!
From what I saw, it was ruled a double-foul that involved a F1 on Gonzaga #24 and common foul UNC #2. From there, the procedure is as follows:

The penalty for double fouls is no free throws and play
is resumed at the point of interruption unless one of the fouls is
a flagrant foul.
Gonzaga #24 will shoot a one-and-one free throw with no
players in the marked lane spaces for the common foul charged to
UNC #2. Following these free throws, UNC #2 will shoot two free throws with
no players in the marked lane spaces for the flagrant 1 personal foul
charged to Gonzaga #24. Play is resumed with a throw-in to UNC at the point
of interruption, which is nearest to where the fouls occurred.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 01:31pm
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I'm the only person here who didn't get to see the game. Jeff can you post it all or tell me where I can watch it? Don't tell me who won...
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 02:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
So between the real job and ample amounts of reading, I'm still not seeing much as far as correct/incorrect ruling on the personal foul followed by the F1.

While I was watching the game, that ruling just didn't seem right. Can someone help me out?

We all know what they called and how it was administered.

My questions - After the personal foul, the ball becomes dead, at that moment, any contact that is illegal and excessive would have to become a dead ball contact technical foul. Is that correct or incorrect? If administered as a personal foul and then a dead ball contact, they would shoot the personal foul first (if in bonus), then the dead ball contact, with the ball being awarded at the division line for a throw in?

Sorry if it has already been discussed in this thread, I just haven't found it yet.

Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure this year!
Some a$$hole brought it up in this thread and on Facebook. He's probably just a HS referee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
8:02 of the 2nd half. I believe the double foul should have been a false double foul with the second foul being a dead ball contact technical foul.

I just listened to the audio of Verne Harris explaining the call to the television commentators. He said there was a foul on #2 White FOLLOWED by an F1 on Karnowski. He didn't say it was a double foul. He said there was one foul followed by another foul.

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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 02:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
So between the real job and ample amounts of reading, I'm still not seeing much as far as correct/incorrect ruling on the personal foul followed by the F1.



While I was watching the game, that ruling just didn't seem right. Can someone help me out?



We all know what they called and how it was administered.



My questions - After the personal foul, the ball becomes dead, at that moment, any contact that is illegal and excessive would have to become a dead ball contact technical foul. Is that correct or incorrect? If administered as a personal foul and then a dead ball contact, they would shoot the personal foul first (if in bonus), then the dead ball contact, with the ball being awarded at the division line for a throw in?



Sorry if it has already been discussed in this thread, I just haven't found it yet.



Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure this year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref View Post
From what I saw, it was ruled a double-foul that involved a F1 on Gonzaga #24 and common foul UNC #2. From there, the procedure is as follows:



The penalty for double fouls is no free throws and play

is resumed at the point of interruption unless one of the fouls is

a flagrant foul.
Gonzaga #24 will shoot a one-and-one free throw with no

players in the marked lane spaces for the common foul charged to

UNC #2. Following these free throws, UNC #2 will shoot two free throws with

no players in the marked lane spaces for the flagrant 1 personal foul

charged to Gonzaga #24. Play is resumed with a throw-in to UNC at the point

of interruption, which is nearest to where the fouls occurred.

I think dahoopref has it right. That I'm aware, there is no "unless" clause in NFHS. It's important to point this out because most forum members are not collegiate officials, and what was administered on TV last night would not be the way to administer it in a high school game.

As to whether this could/should have been a false double foul……meh. I think this was so bang-bang that it qualifies as "two fouls committed by opponents against each other at approximately the same time" per the definition of a double foul. I was ok with the ruling (if not the use of the word "followed" in the explanation to the TV crew).






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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 02:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I think dahoopref has it right. That I'm aware, there is no "unless" clause in NFHS. It's important to point this out because most forum members are not collegiate officials, and what was administered on TV last night would not be the way to administer it in a high school game.

As to whether this could/should have been a false double foul……meh. I think this was so bang-bang that it qualifies as "two fouls committed by opponents against each other at approximately the same time" per the definition of a double foul. I was ok with the ruling (if not the use of the word "followed" in the explanation to the TV crew).



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One foul occurred while Karnowski had the ball, the other foul occurred while the ball was loose. Harris correctly described the play. The administration, well......
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post


Peace
one clue for officials on this is if the shooter goes down in a direction not consistent with the direction that the contact came from, then consider the possibility it was a flop. good grief. there was another one from the left wing same half for UNC that was same situation, very minor contact that shouldn't have been called. I'm glad some NBA guys and media are calling out the tightness of the calls during this game. I think Collins from Gonzaga in particular got a raw deal. May help an adjustment to a little looser whistle to looking for advantage as more of a factor.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 04, 2017, 06:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
one clue for officials on this is if the shooter goes down in a direction not consistent with the direction that the contact came from, then consider the possibility it was a flop. good grief. there was another one from the left wing same half for UNC that was same situation, very minor contact that shouldn't have been called. I'm glad some NBA guys and media are calling out the tightness of the calls during this game. I think Collins from Gonzaga in particular got a raw deal. May help an adjustment to a little looser whistle to looking for advantage as more of a factor.
Agree. The shooter stuck his foot out to make contact. Reggie Miller would have been proud.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 05:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
8:02 of the 2nd half. I believe the double foul should have been a false double foul with the second foul being a dead ball contact technical foul.

I just listened to the audio of Verne Harris explaining the call to the television commentators. He said there was a foul on #2 White FOLLOWED by an F1 on Karnowski. He didn't say it was a double foul. He said there was one foul followed by another foul.

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Any chance of getting this play posted still? Thanks if you can

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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Any chance of getting this play posted still? Thanks if you can

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  #70 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 11, 2017, 09:14am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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It appears they blocked it. Which I figured that was going to happen.

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Let us get into "Good Trouble."
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:18pm
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Just ugly basketball. Dribble down throw it up.brick....etc.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:22pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
10:13 left
Is Meeks correct that Tillie traveled after the defensive rebound?
He got ball. Jumped off floor, then started dribble. Violation.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref View Post
From what I saw, it was ruled a double-foul that involved a F1 on Gonzaga #24 and common foul UNC #2. From there, the procedure is as follows:

The penalty for double fouls is no free throws and play
is resumed at the point of interruption unless one of the fouls is
a flagrant foul.
Gonzaga #24 will shoot a one-and-one free throw with no
players in the marked lane spaces for the common foul charged to
UNC #2. Following these free throws, UNC #2 will shoot two free throws with
no players in the marked lane spaces for the flagrant 1 personal foul
charged to Gonzaga #24. Play is resumed with a throw-in to UNC at the point
of interruption, which is nearest to where the fouls occurred.
7-4-10 says when one of the doubles is flagrant the ball goes to offended team on either side of division line. I don't think NC fouled him but I understand the call. I saw this as false double. Personal and a dead ball contact T. The result should have been same. What they did but NC should have gotten ball at either side of division line.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 15, 2017, 06:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Agree. The shooter stuck his foot out to make contact. Reggie Miller would have been proud.
I did not see first 3 minutes of first half. I didn't care for the foul calls on the two 3 pointers that went in. Gonzaga had one made on left wing. Didn't think it foul. Then later Berry made one. His follow through was over then contact.
I couldn't see the next one where Berry missed the 3 and a foul was called.

Thought second half they could have passed on some things but that can be said about many games. hard game to Ref. Ball didn't go in.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 16, 2017, 08:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
7-4-10 says when one of the doubles is flagrant the ball goes to offended team on either side of division line. I don't think NC fouled him but I understand the call. I saw this as false double. Personal and a dead ball contact T. The result should have been same. What they did but NC should have gotten ball at either side of division line.
Per Art Hyland's RULES CLARIFICATIONS AND REWRITE- RULE 7-4.7 THROUGH .18 – November 15, 2016

The corrections and revisions of Rule 7 below (noted in red) should be implemented immediately. They should be viewed in connection with Rules 4-27, 8-3.4, 10-1 PENALTY f. and g. and 10-3.1 PENALTY and RESUMPTION OF PLAY.

Rule 7 Sec 4 Art. 10. After any double personal or technical fouls or any simultaneous personal or technical fouls when there is team control and only one of the fouls is a flagrant foul, the ball is awarded to the team offended by the flagrant foul for a throw-in at the point of interruption.
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