Ball off Face!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Rich

Do you have any idea what the coach said?

No I don't, and perhaps it contained some magic words, but after such a huge miss by his partner, I certainly would have a little longer leash even for some of the magic words.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

No I don't, and perhaps it contained some magic words, but after such a huge miss by his partner, I certainly would have a little longer leash even for some of the magic words.

That assumes that the official giving the T even saw the play. It is very possible he is looking at the other 8 players on the floor or some other match-up that he would not have seen this play. So I do not blame him for this situation at all.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

No I don't, and perhaps it contained some magic words, but after such a huge miss by his partner, I certainly would have a little longer leash even for some of the magic words.

If the Trail has more than a peripheral look at that play then he's not doing his job officiating the rest of the court. Potentially missing something isn't carte blanche for the HC to say whatever he wants.

[so cal lurker]

So what would the proper call be here?

[Robert E. Harrison]

Illegal use of opponent's face. Unsporting Technical on thrower.

[Dale3]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

So what would the proper call be here?

I'd like to see a technical foul on A1 for an "unsporting foul". If this is intentional, which it clearly looks to be, its a no brainier tech.

2 shots and the ball for Red (NFHS).

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That assumes that the official giving the T even saw the play. It is very possible he is looking at the other 8 players on the floor or some other match-up that he would not have seen this play. So I do not blame him for this situation at all.

Peace

I agree that he has other primary responsibilities, but if you look at the first angle, it appears that this is a 2 man crew. The other 6 of the other 8 players are all below the free throw line, and it even appears that the trail is looking through the court and would have had some view of what just occurred.

Originally Posted by Welpe

If the Trail has more than a peripheral look at that play then he's not doing his job officiating the rest of the court. Potentially missing something isn't carte blanche for the HC to say whatever he wants.

Again, based on the first angle show, I think the trail can do his job while still having a decent look at what happened.

I'm not saying the coach can do/say whatever he wants, but I think you have to give him a little leeway given the situation. Again, we don't know what was said exactly. Maybe there were some magic word expressed. I just think it was a quick trigger given the play.

[LRZ]

It appears to me as if the L was looking right at the two players involved. My conjecture is that it caught him off-guard and he just didn't react. But he might have bought himself some time if, realizing that something troublesome had occurred, he went to his partner to talk it over briefly. One of those "partner, just nod your head as I'm talking to you" conversations.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I agree that he has other primary responsibilities, but if you look at the first angle, it appears that this is a 2 man crew. The other 6 of the other 8 players are all below the free throw line, and it even appears that the trail is looking through the court and would have had some view of what just occurred.

Even if that is the case, it is still not something the Trail should be eyeballing that hard. He might have seen the ball contact the player, but did not see how measured the thrower was on hitting the opponent. So having him come in and making a call is kind of a stretch. The official standing right there administering the throw-in is really responsible for this call here.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even if that is the case, it is still not something the Trail should be eyeballing that hard. He might have seen the ball contact the player, but did not see how measured the thrower was on hitting the opponent. So having him come in and making a call is kind of a stretch. The official standing right there administering the throw-in is really responsible for this call here.

Peace

I am not advocating for the Trail to come in and make a call here. I'm just saying that if the trail caught any glimpse of what happened, and he knows his partner jacked this up, that he give the coach a little chance to speak his mind. I'm not saying that "anything goes" when the coach starts ranting, but there are times when something happens that gets blatantly missed, and if that's the case, within reasonable limits, let the coach say his piece, and then move on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I am not advocating for the Trail to come in and make a call here. I'm just saying that if the trail caught any glimpse of what happened, and he knows his partner jacked this up, that he give the coach a little chance to speak his mind. I'm not saying that "anything goes" when the coach starts ranting, but there are times when something happens that gets blatantly missed, and if that's the case, within reasonable limits, let the coach say his piece, and then move on.

He might have been surprised by what happened or did not know the entire story. And that does not give the coach the right to do whatever after that point of view. And if anything you are yelling at me when it was not my call or play to rule on. Just the fact he is yelling at me might be part of the reason he gets a T. If he does not know who to yell at, then that is not my problem. But he does not get a pass because he is saying something to me in a disrespectful way. Usually I give coaches a chance to change course, but if he doesn't, then so be it and get a T like any other time.

Peace

[MelbRef]

I had a similar situation that has helped me prepare for this conduct.

It was a GV game, and an end-line throw-in similar to the situation in this thread video.

In my case, when I got to a 4 count, the in-bounder threw the ball very hard at the upper torso of the defender but missed, and the ball went up court and out of bounds.

It caught me somewhat off-guard, and I talked to the player at that moment.
I later considered what I would do in the future if the ball had hit the opponent in the upper torso (vs the head, or the legs).

For this video, I have a flagrant technical, no hesitation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I agree that he has other primary responsibilities, but if you look at the first angle, it appears that this is a 2 man crew. The other 6 of the other 8 players are all below the free throw line, and it even appears that the trail is looking through the court and would have had some view of what just occurred.

Sure ... but also, from that angle, he has no reason to believe this was anything other than a normal throw in that happened to hit the defender (albeit in the face). He can't imagine intent from there, he is very unlikely to see anything tech-worthy from there, especially in the light of his partner, on the spot, not calling one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Sure ... but also, from that angle, he has no reason to believe this was anything other than a normal throw in that happened to hit the defender (albeit in the face). He can't imagine intent from there, he is very unlikely to see anything tech-worthy from there, especially in the light of his partner, on the spot, not calling one.

This.

I'm not generally one to think a coach gets extra leeway because a call is missed. I rarely know a call is missed, and even when one was missed and can't be fixed, the coach still needs to act like an adult.

Maybe it's worth the T for the coach to make his point (his player could have been hurt by this), I could see that in this case if he thought it was intentional. That doesn't mean he gets to yell at me, though, without consequence.

[BillyMac]

Slightly of topic, one of our guys was accidentally hit in the head with a pass that went awry, got a concussion, and missed two weeks of games.

We sometimes forget that under certain circumstances, a thrown basketball can cause a serious injury.