Throw-In Issue

[deecee]

Originally Posted by ODog

I instruct the thrower-in that he/she can move back as far as they want.

At the varsity level and higher I don't instruct players anything that their coach should teach them unless they ask a question. The only thing I would remind is a defender to watch the boundary plane.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by deecee

At the varsity level and higher I don't instruct players anything that their coach should teach them unless they ask a question. The only thing I would remind is a defender to watch the boundary plane.

I agree. To me, telling them they can move backward results in one of two things: 1) They get information they should already know, or 2) that information gets misinterpreted and they violate, and then try to blame the official.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ODog

About 65-70 percent of the time, at any level (boys varsity included), if I see there's any sort of pressure being applied on the thrower-in, I instruct the thrower-in that he/she can move back as far as they want. If I see the defender is already overzealous and doing jumping jacks before the ball is even live, I also remind them to treat the throw-in plane as a wall they can't reach through until the pass is released. They don't always listen or understand, but I've tried to help them and avoid a mess, just as we do when we talk players out of the lane or tell them to stop holding/pushing.

I think it's good game management.

I don't tell the players any of those things. I just officiate the game. I think what you are doing is coaching.

[ODog]

So do you guys talk players out of the lane to avoid 3 seconds, tell post players to stop banging or ever say "hands off" out on the perimeter?

These are all things players should know already too.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by ODog

So do you guys talk players out of the lane to avoid 3 seconds, tell post players to stop banging or ever say "hands off" out on the perimeter?

These are all things players should know already too.

For the record, I have no problem with reminding a defensive player not to reach over the boundary plane. With that in mind, I think the difference in our way of thinking is that I will make a comment that may help prevent a needless foul or violation, but not so much as to put a team at an advantage. In other words, I'll talk a player out of putting themselves at a disadvantage (by needing to call a violation or foul), but I won't give them advice.

I think that telling the offense that they can move backwards is giving them advice on how to handle a situation, sort of like telling a ball handler to "fake a pass, make a pass" if they have turned it over, or something like that. I know that's a bit of an extreme example, but my point is that I'm only talking to players to help avoid an infraction. If that possibility isn't there, then I'm not talking to them, unless of course they have a question.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by ODog

So do you guys talk players out of the lane to avoid 3 seconds, tell post players to stop banging or ever say "hands off" out on the perimeter?

These are all things players should know already too.

If you have to say "hands off" it is already to late to be considered preventative officiating. At this point you either need to call the foul or ignore a clear violation of 10-1-4.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by ODog

So do you guys talk players out of the lane to avoid 3 seconds, tell post players to stop banging or ever say "hands off" out on the perimeter?

These are all things players should know already too.

We talk players out of violations/fouls. We don't coach them on how to play smarter basketball.

[crosscountry55]

I feel like we already had this "coaching vs. preventive officiating" debate a few weeks ago.

The jury is split and the horse is dead. I'm ready to move on, anyone else with me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigT]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

i feel like we already had this "coaching vs. Preventive officiating" debate a few weeks ago.

The jury is split and the horse is dead. I'm ready to move on, anyone else with me?


Sent from my iphone using tapatalk

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point. Minor point, but nevertheless, a good point.

9-2-10: The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her
person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the
ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

Any other circumstances that I missed?

I do not think it is a minor point at all considering this is your logic not to say anything that does not define the actual rule. Me on the other hand believe it is not our job to give a rules clinic every time we say something. The players and teams should know what the rules are and if telling them something helps them understand a point of the rule, that is a win, win for me.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... not to say anything that does not define the actual rule.

Originally Posted by You

... treat the throw-in plane as a wall they can't reach through until the pass is released.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... this was a "glass wall".

"You can't reach through the glass wall until the throwin pass is released" pretty much covers all relevant rules.

Any other circumstances that I missed?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The players and teams should know what the rules are and if telling them something helps them understand a point of the rule, that is a win, win for me.

Agree, as long as we don't tell them something that's incorrect. It will be a third win if what we tell them is correct.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"You can't reach through the glass wall until the throwin pass is released" pretty much covers all relevant rules.

Any other circumstances that I missed?

That is too much if you were going to say anything else. I think "Glass wall" makes the right point. If they do not know what they can do on the release that is on them or their coaching staff.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they do not know what they can do on the release that is on them or their coaching staff.

I was talking about Catholic middle school games, so let's put it mostly on the coaching staff, and not totally on the kids (although kids do tend to forget what they were taught (this coming from a retired middle school teacher)).

On second thought, forget it, let's go back to "them or their coaching staff". That's just about right.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"You can't reach through the glass wall until the throwin pass is released" pretty much covers all relevant rules.

Any other circumstances that I missed?

I think if you said "glass wall" the kids would look at you like you were from Mars. I will tell player on D to not reach over line.