H.S. Slapping backboard GT

[Hawkeyes]

I'm a high school official 99% of the time right now, but have an occasional game with NCAA rules.
Working with two excellent officials that work 60/40 H.S. & NCAA.
4th quarter of a game with decent flow and I'm C on a secondary break.
A2 goes in for a layup and B4 misses the block and slaps the backboard so hard that the rims shakes and layup rolls out. I got nothing, but can feel the crowd's disapproval... My trail official comes flying in and is counting the bucket for a goal-tending violation.
My immediate instinct was: Crap - that's wrong and I need to go correct him...
My words would have been: "We either have to get a technical foul on this play or take back the goal tending?". I'm confident that the trail official was confident that he was right... so I did nothing and figured I'd settle it at the next timeout or post-game.
Next timeout; I tell both of them: "In H.S. that is a T or nothing." They both have a mixed look of: are you sure/I think you're right/oh crap.
BTW: I knew I was 100% right on this one and I showed them 10-4-4 post-game and we had no argument... these are excellent officials!
Q: Did I handle this correctly or should I have gone over and corrected my partner without him asking me for help?

[JRutledge]

I have no issues with what you did.

Peace

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Hawkeyes

I'm a high school official 99% of the time right now, but have an occasional game with NCAA rules.
Working with two excellent officials that work 60/40 H.S. & NCAA.
4th quarter of a game with decent flow and I'm C on a secondary break.
A2 goes in for a layup and B4 misses the block and slaps the backboard so hard that the rims shakes and layup rolls out. I got nothing, but can feel the crowd's disapproval... My trail official comes flying in and is counting the bucket for a goal-tending violation.
My immediate instinct was: Crap - that's wrong and I need to go correct him...
My words would have been: "We either have to get a technical foul on this play or take back the goal tending?". I'm confident that the trail official was confident that he was right... so I did nothing and figured I'd settle it at the next timeout or post-game.
Next timeout; I tell both of them: "In H.S. that is a T or nothing." They both have a mixed look of: are you sure/I think you're right/oh crap.
BTW: I knew I was 100% right on this one and I showed them 10-4-4 post-game and we had no argument... these are excellent officials!
Q: Did I handle this correctly or should I have gone over and corrected my partner without him asking me for help?

At the very least, I think it's worth the discussion. To me I would handle it just like a ball I saw tipped that my partner sends the other way. I'm going to come in and provide him information, and allow him to change or keep his call from there. That said, I also let him know pregame and on the spot that I'm only coming in if I'm 1000% sure.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by frezer11

At the very least, I think it's worth the discussion. To me I would handle it just like a ball I saw tipped that my partner sends the other way. I'm going to come in and provide him information, and allow him to change or keep his call from there. That said, I also let him know pregame and on the spot that I'm only coming in if I'm 1000% sure.

+1.

BTW, it would be BI if anything, not GT. But that's in college, not in HS.

Every HS fan and coach in America thinks this is BI (they'll call it GT but we know what they mean). And they're all wrong.

I wouldn't mind NFHS coming in line with NCAA on this rule, but I don't think it will happen. Most HS backboards are non-portable, so a good slap of the board doesn't really move the rim around all that much.

[BillyMac]

The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket. On most layups, the ball is going up immediately after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up, and is not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference, nor is it goaltending, and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard, during a tap, or a try, so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot, and accidentally slaps the backboard, it is neither a violation, nor is it a technical foul

[Nevadaref]

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

[Freddy]

NCAA officials, if they are going to accept NFHS games, need to-- at the very least -- review pp.75-77 of the rules book delineating the differences between the two rule sets. Partner last week-- and I like him dearly as a friend and a crewmate -- was surprised I called a violation for a player intentionally going OOB and delaying before return inbounds, then called a violation on a player who he determined was first to touch after going OOB and then returning inbounds.
I say, "If they are going to accept NFHS games." They really don't have to. And if they determine not to call the game according to the approved rules set, it's better for the crew and the game if they not officiate high school games.
Comply or deny. Comply with the prevailing rules set, or deny the opportunity to officiate the game.
Simple.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Freddy

NCAA officials, if they are going to accept NFHS games, need to-- at the very least -- review pp.75-77 of the rules book delineating the differences between the two rule sets. Partner last week-- and I like him dearly as a friend and a crewmate -- was surprised I called a violation for a player intentionally going OOB and delaying before return inbounds, then called a violation on a player who he determined was first to touch after going OOB and then returning inbounds.
I say, "If they are going to accept NFHS games." They really don't have to. And if they determine not to call the game according to the approved rules set, it's better for the crew and the game if they not officiate high school games.
Comply or deny. Comply with the prevailing rules set, or deny the opportunity to officiate the game.
Simple.

And what about the HS-only officials who apply NCAA and NBA rules they see on TV because they don't get in the rule book at all? I rather have a college guy who occasionally makes an honest mistake in delineating the 2 rule sets as opposed to the multitude of HS-only guys around here who barely get 80's on open book rules tests.

I had my young protégé' tell me about this exact play from his HS game the other night. I simply told him he used the wrong rule set for the play, without the condescending "if you are going accept HS games" lecture.

As for me, I don't need pg 75-77, I study the rules for each level and apply accordingly. If I have a rules question, I go directly to the rule in that level's rule book.

I had a HS game a couple weeks ago where a visiting players was flying OOB airborne in front of the home team's bench and yelled "time out", just before he hit the floor. The home HS coach, who only deals with HS rules, told me the player couldn't do that. I had to remind the HS coach that what he is referring to is a college rule. Maybe coaches shouldn't accept HS positions if they can't keep the rule sets straight.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

How are you going to make them change something either you did not see or they made a ruling on? When you discussed it with them, that is all you can do. If they are not convinced they are wrong, you cannot make them change the call. And that is certainly the case if they did not see the play in question.

All you can do in the end is show them how wrong they are and they should learn from the situation. But you cannot make them change the call without blatantly overruling them which you advocate is not our job to do.

Peace

[Welpe]

You can't go in and overrule your partner(s) but you should offer information in this situation so that it still can be corrected. Talking about it after is good for future reference but doesn't help anything going forward - and it reinforces a rule misconception with those teams that may need to be dealt with down the road. That's a secondary concern but still worth mentioning.

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

Agreed!
I saw the play and passed. It was not "T" worthy! The counting of the basket by my partner was wrong and I should have given the info. this one is not on him, totally on me... I'm the most knowledgeable H.S. official that night! If I were working a college game, you can bet they would have come in and corrected me if I was misapplying a NCAA rule!

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Hawkeyes

I'm a high school official 99% of the time right now, but have an occasional game with NCAA rules.
Working with two excellent officials that work 60/40 H.S. & NCAA.
4th quarter of a game with decent flow and I'm C on a secondary break.
A2 goes in for a layup and B4 misses the block and slaps the backboard so hard that the rims shakes and layup rolls out. I got nothing, but can feel the crowd's disapproval... My trail official comes flying in and is counting the bucket for a goal-tending violation.
My immediate instinct was: Crap - that's wrong and I need to go correct him...
My words would have been: "We either have to get a technical foul on this play or take back the goal tending?". I'm confident that the trail official was confident that he was right... so I did nothing and figured I'd settle it at the next timeout or post-game.
Next timeout; I tell both of them: "In H.S. that is a T or nothing." They both have a mixed look of: are you sure/I think you're right/oh crap.
BTW: I knew I was 100% right on this one and I showed them 10-4-4 post-game and we had no argument... these are excellent officials!
Q: Did I handle this correctly or should I have gone over and corrected my partner without him asking me for help?

I would have asked for a clarification, which hopefully got your conversation started. But, more likely, caused him to dig in more.