H.S. Slapping backboard GT

[Nevadaref]

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

[Freddy]

NCAA officials, if they are going to accept NFHS games, need to-- at the very least -- review pp.75-77 of the rules book delineating the differences between the two rule sets. Partner last week-- and I like him dearly as a friend and a crewmate -- was surprised I called a violation for a player intentionally going OOB and delaying before return inbounds, then called a violation on a player who he determined was first to touch after going OOB and then returning inbounds.
I say, "If they are going to accept NFHS games." They really don't have to. And if they determine not to call the game according to the approved rules set, it's better for the crew and the game if they not officiate high school games.
Comply or deny. Comply with the prevailing rules set, or deny the opportunity to officiate the game.
Simple.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Freddy

NCAA officials, if they are going to accept NFHS games, need to-- at the very least -- review pp.75-77 of the rules book delineating the differences between the two rule sets. Partner last week-- and I like him dearly as a friend and a crewmate -- was surprised I called a violation for a player intentionally going OOB and delaying before return inbounds, then called a violation on a player who he determined was first to touch after going OOB and then returning inbounds.
I say, "If they are going to accept NFHS games." They really don't have to. And if they determine not to call the game according to the approved rules set, it's better for the crew and the game if they not officiate high school games.
Comply or deny. Comply with the prevailing rules set, or deny the opportunity to officiate the game.
Simple.

And what about the HS-only officials who apply NCAA and NBA rules they see on TV because they don't get in the rule book at all? I rather have a college guy who occasionally makes an honest mistake in delineating the 2 rule sets as opposed to the multitude of HS-only guys around here who barely get 80's on open book rules tests.

I had my young protégé' tell me about this exact play from his HS game the other night. I simply told him he used the wrong rule set for the play, without the condescending "if you are going accept HS games" lecture.

As for me, I don't need pg 75-77, I study the rules for each level and apply accordingly. If I have a rules question, I go directly to the rule in that level's rule book.

I had a HS game a couple weeks ago where a visiting players was flying OOB airborne in front of the home team's bench and yelled "time out", just before he hit the floor. The home HS coach, who only deals with HS rules, told me the player couldn't do that. I had to remind the HS coach that what he is referring to is a college rule. Maybe coaches shouldn't accept HS positions if they can't keep the rule sets straight.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

How are you going to make them change something either you did not see or they made a ruling on? When you discussed it with them, that is all you can do. If they are not convinced they are wrong, you cannot make them change the call. And that is certainly the case if they did not see the play in question.

All you can do in the end is show them how wrong they are and they should learn from the situation. But you cannot make them change the call without blatantly overruling them which you advocate is not our job to do.

Peace

[Welpe]

You can't go in and overrule your partner(s) but you should offer information in this situation so that it still can be corrected. Talking about it after is good for future reference but doesn't help anything going forward - and it reinforces a rule misconception with those teams that may need to be dealt with down the road. That's a secondary concern but still worth mentioning.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You can't go in an overrule your partner(s) but you should offer information in this situation so that it still can be corrected. Talking about it after is good for future reference but doesn't help anything going forward - and it reinforces a rule misconception with those teams that may need to be dealt with down the road. That's a secondary concern but still worth mentioning.

If you talk to him and he is convinced he is right (for whatever reason), then what? You cannot do anything but give information and that is if you know why they made a call. It is no different than a block-charge call where you might pass on the play because you have almost no-contact and your partner calls a foul. Are you going to give your partner information at that time? And if you do what if they are convinced they are right? Mentioning my be one thing, but they are going to have to live with some calls. Unless the call is to save the game (which I do not see in this), then we could be "mentioning" a lot to partners potentially.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you talk to him and he is convinced he is right (for whatever reason), then what?

Nothing, of course. Which is exactly what I said.

It is no different than a block-charge call where you might pass on the play because you have almost no-contact and your partner calls a foul.

Judgment vs rules misapplication. Apples and moonrocks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Judgment vs rules misapplication. Apples and moonrocks.

A block-charge call can be a misapplication of the rules and a misjudgment at the very same time. Just like an out of bounds play can be as well. It just depends on what happens and often you are not going to really know why some situations are missed unless you ask.

Better yet, with this rule you could also misapply the rule. The NCAA rule says if the ball hits the backboard and is touched off the backboard, it is goaltending. That very same play in a high school game might be a GT and might not be. So when an officials calls a GT in high school, are they making it because it applied all the way to the high school rule or are they using the college rule? You would not know unless the ball is grossly below the rim and even then, they might have felt the ball was touched where it would be illegal.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A block-charge call can be a misapplication of the rules and a misjudgment at the very same time.

Not in the example you cited. And in reality, it's meaningless. I'm not proffering a one size fits all solution to everything we don't agree with being called by a partner. Ergo my statement "...in this situation."

I'm responding to the OP, which is very clearly a misapplication of the rules. We can run this to the ridiculous conclusion if we must but let's keep it focused on BI/GT and slapping the backboard.

There is absolutely no element of this play, as described, that is subject to judgment.

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You can't go in and overrule your partner(s) but you should offer information in this situation so that it still can be corrected. Talking about it after is good for future reference but doesn't help anything going forward - and it reinforces a rule misconception with those teams that may need to be dealt with down the road. That's a secondary concern but still worth mentioning.

Honestly, reinforcing what fans, coaches and players now think is correct is what is frustrating me the most today!
The play didn't impact the game outcome IMO...
I'm irritated with myself - even considered emailing the coaches from both teams!

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You allowed your crew to kick a rule and award unmerited points to a team. Yes, you should have handled it differently.
You should have held up the resumption of the game following your partner's incorrect ruling and had a conversation right then. He obviously applied the NCAA ruling and the mistake should have been fixed.
This wasn't a situation in which you were uncertain of the NFHS rule or what your partner saw on the play. As the C, you had a great look and you had the proper rules knowledge that the crew needed. You should have spoken up.

Agreed!
I saw the play and passed. It was not "T" worthy! The counting of the basket by my partner was wrong and I should have given the info. this one is not on him, totally on me... I'm the most knowledgeable H.S. official that night! If I were working a college game, you can bet they would have come in and corrected me if I was misapplying a NCAA rule!