Cathartic Release

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The free throw violation needs to be called. It's obvious and crew looks like idiots not calling it. Trail needs to help referee. First time girl turns ball over I try to say something to her to be careful. It's also obvious. If she dribbled ball and caught it with two hands and dribbled again we'd all call it regardless of ad v disadvantage. It is that bad. The spin move may be a foul but if no foul ball is OB on white. Good call. The sideline play is OB on blue but ball given to them. That's a tough call. Happens quick. The guy isn't nuts in reviewing the plays.

He's a fan/parent and will never understand until he referees. There are wrong calls in the video. They are going to happen. If you are willing to pay Jeff, APG and badnews you might be happier.

You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.

[xyrph]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.

These are not travel games. Not sure why that keeps being brought up. These are games from this season. It's not hundreds of games and it's not hundreds of officials. Our girls do train year round and do participate in travel ball, but each of these clips is from this school season.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.

You have to do what you have to do. The FT shooter is half way in the paint before ball at rim. Gotcha call? Not even close. Your toe touches line is a gotcha call. Again, obvious violation. It's not an advan v disad call. It's a blatant violation. As a crew, u look like idiots if this happens. Now, I know it does happen to good crews. It still isn't something I should pass on.

(APG is right about slo mo. id like to see it in fast speed before saying how obvious it is)--the Carries

And again, when there not called it doesn't mean someone is cheating. It's the quality of official or their philosophy as you see in this thread. Nobody really cares who wins that game. Again, until you pick up the whistle you just can't understand.

[JeffM]

I watched the video with the audio off so I did not hear the complaining.

My advice would be to understand that all officials miss calls every game and that it should all balance out in the end.

I saw a couple times where players set screens and fell to the floor on contact that I do not consider excessive. It didn't appear to me that they were falling to the floor for any purpose other than to draw a foul. They are taking themselves out of the play by falling to the floor and are not likely to draw many fouls when setting screens.

You should understand that you cannot expect officials to get every call right. Every time a player falls to the floor in hopes of drawing a foul, they are taking a risk (A) they will draw the foul, (B) they will be called for a foul, or (C) there will be no call and they will be on the floor while a basketball game is being played. What they do affects the outcome, but they are forcing the official to decide the outcome. It is a risk, but you shouldn't be surprised when you don't get the desired outcome. Your team can play in such a way that they are less dependent on the officials.

I have also coached my children's teams with officials who I know and have worked with. Call the official "R" and say that he is a man, but the same could be said of almost anyone I consider to be a good official. I watch R in a varsity game and think he is a good official. I work with R in a varsity game and think he is a good official. I watch R in a rec game and think he is a good official. I work with R in a rec game and think he is a good official. Then, I have a rec game where I am the coach and I see R miss a lot of plays. The first couple times, I thought R just had a bad game as I know that R isn't cheating against me as he is friendly the next time I see him. I realized that the problem is that I see plays a lot differently as a coach because a coach has a rooting interest. A lot differently. As a coach, I want R to call every marginal play in my team's favor.

As an official, it helps me to realize that the coaches see things from a biased perspective.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The blue player carries the ball blatantly repeatedly. Not just once. Multiple times. These aren't small carries because the ball is flat etc. again if it's not obvious I pass. If a player dribbles, catches and dribbles again I assume you'd call it. Regardless of advantage. These carries are that obvious to me. Again, I'd try to talk to her after first one. I can't make u see what I see and vice versa.

Till she uses that carry, I'm not really bothered by it.

Originally Posted by xyrph

Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.

My players practice all year long. We do travel ball. We prepare. It's frustrating when the officials of a given game let so many clear violations by opponents slide and then make calls against us.

It happens every game. I start off the games giving the benefit of the doubt and by the 2nd quarter, I'm often steaming.

What I've chosen to do this year is just compile a video of some of these and it's certainly been cathartic.

I'd like to share it with you in the hopes that you can see the frustration these calls cause the teams, coaches, parents, fans.

0:03 INC FT shooter violation
0:15 CNC carry
0:21 CNC carry
0:29 CNC carry
0:41 CNC travel, INC shooting foul, IC OOB direction
1:06 IC OOB direction (via slo-mo I have CC)
1:40 CNC push through screen
2:02 INC contact on airborne shooter
2:27 INC travel, IC foul
2:54 CNC foul
3:16 IC foul
3:44 IC foul
4:13 INC foul, CC OOB direction, INC taunt
4:47 CNC blocked shot, CC OOB direction
5:12 INC foul
5:33 IC OOB direction
6:06 CNC pushing through screener
6:24 CNC splitting two defenders
6:38 CNC on marginal block/charge
6:53 CNC marginal contact on arm after ball gone, IC OOB direction
7:13 CNC marginal contact after made layup
7:40 CNC held ball, CNC marginal contact on steal
7:49 INC held ball
7:59 CNC carry
8:26 INC foul
9:00 CC foul, defender never had legal position
9:46 CNC carry

19 correct, 16 incorrect, 54% CC percentage on these tough plays.

Girls basketball is ugly. A couple of these could go either way based on how tight/loose the game is being called. Reply back if you want specifics on any of the plays.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by AremRed

0:03 INC FT shooter violation
0:15 CNC carry
0:21 CNC carry
0:29 CNC carry
0:41 CNC travel, INC shooting foul, IC OOB direction
1:06 IC OOB direction (via slo-mo I have CC)
1:40 CNC push through screen
2:02 INC contact on airborne shooter
2:27 INC travel, IC foul
2:54 CNC foul
3:16 IC foul
3:44 IC foul
4:13 INC foul, CC OOB direction, INC taunt
4:47 CNC blocked shot, CC OOB direction
5:12 INC foul
5:33 IC OOB direction
6:06 CNC pushing through screener
6:24 CNC splitting two defenders
6:38 CNC on marginal block/charge
6:53 CNC marginal contact on arm after ball gone, IC OOB direction
7:13 CNC marginal contact after made layup
7:40 CNC held ball, CNC marginal contact on steal
7:49 INC held ball
7:59 CNC carry
8:26 INC foul
9:00 CC foul, defender never had legal position
9:46 CNC carry

19 correct, 16 incorrect, 54% CC percentage on these tough plays.

Girls basketball is ugly. A couple of these could go either way based on how tight/loose the game is being called. Reply back if you want specifics on any of the plays.

Wow man nice work.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're calling that FT violation? ok.

The one at the beginning of the video?

Every time. I agree -- we look dumb if we don't.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

The one at the beginning of the video?

Every time. I agree -- we look dumb if we don't.

That was probably the worst missed call on the video. Otherwise, lots of marginal "missed" call to good no calls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

That was probably the worst missed call on the video. Otherwise, lots of marginal "missed" call to good no calls.

I think for me the slow motion threw me off. I see she was deep in when it went through, but I'd rather see it at real speed before saying for sure whether I'd get it.

[Rich]

I would like to say I never work games like this, but I did recently and I'd hate to have a video done of our game, although I can tell you that I hustled from T to L and L to T and C to C a lot more than these guys did. That's just called professionalism.

But in the game I'm thinking of, I probably called 7-10 travels myself and eventually I edited my filter on those so I wouldn't call one on every last trip. I didn't favor one team over the other. If you pull one of those out of the game film and show it in isolation, it probably shows that I am a horrible official. Oh, well.

Do I think that some hustle and attentiveness would make these crews better? Yes, I do. But it's not going to make the level of play better. I'm not from the area of the OP and in our area we have far better teams and some teams that are worse and some at the same caliber as this. And let me tell you -- I've had some games where the quality of play has me feeling that I'm the best official in the world and some where NBA officials would look terrible. This kind of basketball leans towards the latter.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

I would like to say I never work games like this, but I did recently and I'd hate to have a video done of our game, although I can tell you that I hustled from T to L and L to T and C to C a lot more than these guys did. That's just called professionalism.

But in the game I'm thinking of, I probably called 7-10 travels myself and eventually I edited my filter on those so I wouldn't call one on every last trip. I didn't favor one team over the other. If you pull one of those out of the game film and show it in isolation, it probably shows that I am a horrible official. Oh, well.

Do I think that some hustle and attentiveness would make these crews better? Yes, I do. But it's not going to make the level of play better. I'm not from the area of the OP and in our area we have far better teams and some teams that are worse and some at the same caliber as this. And let me tell you -- I've had some games where the quality of play has me feeling that I'm the best official in the world and some where NBA officials would look terrible. This kind of basketball leans towards the latter.

Agreed. I went ahead to look at the missed shooting foul at the 2:02 mark (or so), and that was clearly missed because the lead got beat, badly, down the court. He got beat by about 8 girls, so there were at least 4 players between him and the contact on the opposite side of the lane. T wasn't in a position to help on that contact, either. Is that because he didn't hustle? I don't know for sure, to be honest, but it sure looks like it.

[Adam]

Another thought on the quality of officials in these games. You're going to get a mix of new officials, veterans looking to shake some rust off (or make some extra cash) in the off season, and perpetual travel league refs.

For the most part, you're going to get what you pay for. What you pay also includes the grief you're giving them. I quit working this sort of basketball for two reasons.

1. The pay for those games around here is atrocious. When they start paying a reasonable fee that actually compensates me for my time and not just my travel expenses, I'll consider it.

2. Parents and coaches are horrible. Let's just say their expectations of the officials far exceeds the quality of coaching and play. Many of those games wouldn't be worth the headache at 4 times the pay.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

Agreed. I went ahead to look at the missed shooting foul at the 2:02 mark (or so), and that was clearly missed because the lead got beat, badly, down the court. He got beat by about 8 girls, so there were at least 4 players between him and the contact on the opposite side of the lane. T wasn't in a position to help on that contact, either. Is that because he didn't hustle? I don't know for sure, to be honest, but it sure looks like it.

2:02 is sad. L doesn't hustle and the C isn't even in the picture. That's a great transition foul for C to get if he's hustling down the floor.

So, see, coach, we're willing to call out our own when we see something that warrants it.

[packersowner]

Lesson learned in all of this, don't come to an officials forum, complaining about all of the missed calls you have compiled.