Legal Guarding Position

[SNIPERBBB]

I didnt say they teach to fall away early. I said its the natural reaction.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I didnt say they teach to fall away early. I said its the natural reaction.

It is a very natural reaction. I read your post to say coaches want that call. I guess I'll say they want every call. But they don't expect getting that call if their player falls down early. Games just never been played that way. Falling down early is a conversation referees have here. Coaches teach kids to take contact.

[Rich]

As a coach I don't want my player falling early. Much more likely to get landed on and more likely to get pinned with a blocking foul.

Really depends on the situation but I generally call this a block as the falling players legs trip the opponent.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

There are things in rules I question based on how game is played and coached. As a coach and player, if I or my kid doesn't stay in for contact, falls early, then I don't expect a charge call. I don't know a single coach who will say he's entitled to fall early. That's something a rule maker came up with. That's my opinion. As the coach of the defense I'll sure take it but I don't expect it. I'm not sure who comes up with some of these rules.

And moving backward is different than falling early. Moving backward entire body goes back.

I agree there is a distinction betw falling early and moving backwards; furthermore, no coach in his right mind would teach their defenders to "fall early"--despite the theoretical correctness of action with regard to LGP status. I addition to the high potential for head injury [which is results from A1's acceleration into a B1 that is ''pulling'' the contact] there is also the toughness factor that players must develop by conditioning themselves to contact. I agree, there are a few rules that seem as though they were 'made in a vacuum'.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Really depends on the situation but I generally call this a block as the falling players legs trip the opponent.

Again, if the offense has a head of steam and would have killed him anyway I will call the charge. He's actually going to take more pain falling early.
The plays where offense comes in and jumps off two feet, defender starts fall, and offense comes down and trips are ones I call block. If he stays up no one goes to floor. I consider it a trip.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Rich

As a coach I don't want my player falling early. Much more likely to get landed on and more likely to get pinned with a blocking foul.

I wouldnt teach it either, because I wouldnt want to give any excuse for an official to no-call or call a block.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I wouldnt teach it either, because I wouldnt want to give any excuse for an official to no-call or call a block.

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I wouldnt teach it either, because I wouldnt want to give any excuse for an official to no-call or call a block.

You shouldn't want to teach it because you'll get your kid hurt. You should think more about them than an official's call. What you say is an "excuse" I say is making kid play the game it's always been played and expected to play. Again, the only people talking about falling early being ok are referees. Just never enters coach/player thinking.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

I'm implying that falling back early makes it more likely I'll no call the play, yes.

We're in the sales profession as officials. Make a call harder for me to sell, I may just not make it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

Yes.

I dont know what it is, and this is starting to change, but for years in this area if you made a charge call, you may as well have two heads. Block is/was regarded as the safe call.

Used to work with some guys that if they did make a charge call, I had a hard time keeping the whistle in my mouth from my jaw dropping.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Yes.

I dont know what it is, and this is starting to change, but for years in this area if you made a charge call, you may as well have two heads. Block is/was regarded as the safe call.

Used to work with some guys that if they did make a charge call, I had a hard time keeping the whistle in my mouth from my jaw dropping.

You know Sniper, I tell people that I'm not going to split hairs on block charge. I know how hard it is to get a kid to hang in there. I will call the charge for that reason and to tell offense out of control is not going to end well. I do need to see the contact. If it's there I'll reward the kid. I just don't/can't do it for falling early unless I know he'd have been creamed anyway.

I understand it's a natural reflex...I just used to get an ass chewin for it. (There's the truth of it. Deep seated anguish)��

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Really depends on the situation but I generally call this a block as the falling players legs trip the opponent.

Did the defender's legs establish and maintain LGP?
If so, I got a PC foul as far as NFHS goes.

[SNIPERBBB]

I think we're discussing different terms.

[just another ref]

I agree that falling early will more likely result in a no call. If the defender is falling already, it is easy to make the argument that, even if there is contact, he was not disadvantaged. But if the defender is stationary and/or has LGP, and moves completely away from the offense, his feet didn't kick out toward the dribbler/shooter, then there is no way this should result in a blocking foul.