Legal Guarding Position

[Zoochy]

Play: A1 begins a drive to the basket. B2 steps into A1's path, has two feet on the court while facing A1, and just before A1 reaches B2, B2 starts to fall backward. As B2 is falling backward but has not yet fallen all the way to the court, A1 dribbles through B2's torso, which knocks B2 the rest of the way to the court. Since B2 was not completely upright when the contact occurred, who shall be assessed with the foul?
NFHS, NCAAM and NCAAW rulings.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Play: A1 begins a drive to the basket. B2 steps into A1's path, has two feet on the court while facing A1, and just before A1 reaches B2, B2 starts to fall backward. As B2 is falling backward but has not yet fallen all the way to the court, A1 dribbles through B2's torso, which knocks B2 the rest of the way to the court. Since B2 was not completely upright when the contact occurred, who shall be assessed with the foul?
NFHS, NCAAM and NCAAW rulings.

This is HTBT, but still sounds like PC on A1. If you're in LGP and get trucked, you got trucked, whether you fell (even partially on your own) or not.

[just another ref]

A player is never penalized for falling away from approaching contact. If B1 is stationary and leans away from contact before being run over by A1, the foul is on A1, whether LGP was ever established or not.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is never penalized for falling away from approaching contact. If B1 is stationary and leans away from contact before being run over by A1, the foul is on A1, whether LGP was ever established or not.

LGP is still part of the equation. Otherwise, I could step in and fall backwards.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

LGP is still part of the equation. Otherwise, I could step in and fall backwards.

But if you do the stepping in is the illegal part, not the falling backward.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is never penalized for falling away from approaching contact. If B1 is stationary and leans away from contact before being run over by A1, the foul is on A1, whether LGP was ever established or not.

Correction...

A player is should not penalized for falling away from approaching contact.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correction...

A player is should not penalized for falling away from approaching contact.

Touche' The bottom line is that falling away should not make what you're doing any worse. If you were legal, you're still legal, and if not......

The only thing negative that may happen is a player who does have LGP may reduce/eliminate contact that would have occurred, turning a PC foul into a no call.

[Rufus]

Assuming LGP and the defender is falling away, who's responsible for the contact? If anything the offensive player not only initiates it but does so at a speed faster than if the defender wasn't falling back (i.e., has to cover distance to defender plus distance/speed defender is falling away).

[Rich]

This is the usual thread on this topic -- one that will not change how anyone calls these plays.

[Rich]

As a coach I don't want my player falling early. Much more likely to get landed on and more likely to get pinned with a blocking foul.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Rich

As a coach I don't want my player falling early. Much more likely to get landed on and more likely to get pinned with a blocking foul.

I wouldnt teach it either, because I wouldnt want to give any excuse for an official to no-call or call a block.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I wouldnt teach it either, because I wouldnt want to give any excuse for an official to no-call or call a block.

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

I'm implying that falling back early makes it more likely I'll no call the play, yes.

We're in the sales profession as officials. Make a call harder for me to sell, I may just not make it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

are you implying that the ref won't make the correct call?

Yes.

I dont know what it is, and this is starting to change, but for years in this area if you made a charge call, you may as well have two heads. Block is/was regarded as the safe call.

Used to work with some guys that if they did make a charge call, I had a hard time keeping the whistle in my mouth from my jaw dropping.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Yes.

I dont know what it is, and this is starting to change, but for years in this area if you made a charge call, you may as well have two heads. Block is/was regarded as the safe call.

Used to work with some guys that if they did make a charge call, I had a hard time keeping the whistle in my mouth from my jaw dropping.

You know Sniper, I tell people that I'm not going to split hairs on block charge. I know how hard it is to get a kid to hang in there. I will call the charge for that reason and to tell offense out of control is not going to end well. I do need to see the contact. If it's there I'll reward the kid. I just don't/can't do it for falling early unless I know he'd have been creamed anyway.

I understand it's a natural reflex...I just used to get an ass chewin for it. (There's the truth of it. Deep seated anguish)��