Fight

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Uni,

So, as soon as horn goes off and the play is dead, everybody is a team member/bench personnel???

Here you had a try in flight, horn and then clearly missed try making ball dead and ending quarter. Everybody is now bench personnel. All 10 who were in game and of course, all others. During intermission everybody is bench personnel.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Here you had a try in flight, horn and then clearly missed try making ball dead and ending quarter. Everybody is now bench personnel. All 10 who were in game and of course, all others. During intermission everybody is bench personnel.

Yet the rules regarding fighting and the behavior of bench personnel are written in the context of it not being an intermission. I don't think you'd treat the 5 people who were the players as if they came off the bench when a fight occurred. They were legally on the floor having been players. You might treat them as bench personnel so far as indirect T's go, however, but not for the purposes of disqualification if they do not participate.

Also, if the true bench personnel were heading towards their locker room, they'd be authorized to do that too. So, I would have no problem not treating them as leaving the bench for a fight unless they showed some sort of aggressive action related to the fight.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yet the rules regarding fighting and the behavior of bench personnel are written in the context of it not being an intermission. I don't think you'd treat the 5 people who were the players as if they came off the bench when a fight occurred. They were legally on the floor having been players. You might treat them as bench personnel so far as indirect T's go, however, but not for the purposes of disqualification if they do not participate.

Also, if the true bench personnel were heading towards their locker room, they'd be authorized to do that too. So, I would have no problem not treating them as leaving the bench for a fight unless they showed some sort of aggressive action related to the fight.

I never want to be just a black and white type official when there is gray involved. For example, the instant that the clock shows 00 is the 10 people/team members/players now team members because it is now half time? THE VERY INSTANT? And, just because it is now halftime, is it okay for "people" (you choose the right word) to rush toward the fight? How does an official know other than actual fighting if the kid is merely headed to the locker room or is leaving the bench area because a fight broke out? One team's locker room path led toward the fight and the other led away from it.

We teach our officials to get eyes on the bench. When they did, there was nobody on the bench. There is no way to determine a kid's intention. In my opinion, he is either headed towards the locker room or headed toward the fight. Also, there wasn't enough time elapsed (from shot,horn and whistle) to altercation for the coaches to state that the kids milling around the fight were merely headed to the locker room. 10 minutes later, kids were still not in their locker room for halftime purposes?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yet the rules regarding fighting and the behavior of bench personnel are written in the context of it not being an intermission. I don't think you'd treat the 5 people who were the players as if they came off the bench when a fight occurred. They were legally on the floor having been players. You might treat them as bench personnel so far as indirect T's go, however, but not for the purposes of disqualification if they do not participate.

Also, if the true bench personnel were heading towards their locker room, they'd be authorized to do that too. So, I would have no problem not treating them as leaving the bench for a fight unless they showed some sort of aggressive action related to the fight.

Yes, I agree. It is important to know in OP that they are bench personnel because of the two players fighting. They go and coach gets indirect and is seat belted.

Now, here's why I'm wondering who I can toss:
As you point out the players on the floor at end of half certainly have a right to be there. When the shot is obvioudly missed the bench has a right to be on the floor. Half over. When the long shot was taken those two players were fairly close together. Chances of the other 8 being right there...not good. Let's say some of the other 8 run to the fight and mouth. Just as the bench kids do. They all have a right to be on floor at that moment. But if they all run to fight am I only going to toss the bench kids?

Frankly, if kids do run on floor in that circumstance and are restrained enough not to get involved I probably woukdnt toss anybody. They didn't leave bench go get involved in fight. They left it cause half over and then went to the fight. I can't see tossing them because they went to fight and not the other 8 if they ran to it. 2 kids started the BS, am I going to kick everybody out and declare game over? I'm just thinking as I go so if I've screwed up on my thoughts go easy.

Read rest of Mulk's post. If the players won't leave the floor there's a a basis to penalize or toss the player separate from the leaving bench stuff. Simply unspotrsmanlike T or Flagrant T and toss.

[Nevadaref]

Everyone else has already made excellent comments in this thread. The only point which I will add is to make certain to not forget to properly tally the team fouls at the start of the 3rd quarter. However many direct technical fouls end up being assessed need to be put on the board and counted towards reaching the bonus in the second half.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Also, if the true bench personnel were heading towards their locker room, they'd be authorized to do that too. So, I would have no problem not treating them as leaving the bench for a fight unless they showed some sort of aggressive action related to the fight.

Is it aggressive action if some of the true bench personnel merely rushed to the fight but did not fight?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Is it aggressive action if some of the true bench personnel merely rushed to the fight but did not fight?

I wouold judge it that way.

And, even if the team's path toward the locker room is toward the fight, I'd make it incumbent on that team to stop or go around once the fight starts. Continuing to go in that direction is grounds for dismissal, imo.