The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 08, 2017, 10:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Legal or not

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 06:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcran View Post
Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?
What do you have?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 06:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcran View Post
Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?
I have the exact play being in an interp or case play.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 06:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcran View Post
Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?
If you are a fan and want to know answer I have no issue telling you. If you are a referee I'd tell you to read the case and rule book. The answer is there as Bob said. No substitute for reading
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:06pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,742
Errant Outlet Pass ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I have the exact play being in an interp or case play.
I can't find the exact play, just this:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS

SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)


Keep in mind that in Situation 6, A1 had not already dribbled the ball before "passing".

bob jenkins: What exact case play or interpretation were you referring to for the original post (illegal dribble)?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 22, 2017 at 08:13pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:09pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,742
All The Kids Are Doing It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
No substitute for reading
What's wrong with doing research and "reading" something on the internet? After all, this is the twenty-first century. And this is coming from an old geezer. Should I put away my modern electronic calculator and go back to using my old trusty slide ruler?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 22, 2017 at 08:14pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:39pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
If you are a fan and want to know answer I have no issue telling you. If you are a referee I'd tell you to read the case and rule book. The answer is there as Bob said. No substitute for reading
Maybe he could not find the play? I have yet to see anyone quote the actual play in the rulebook or case book. Some officials have not learned how to read both and look up plays. That is after all what this forum is designed for I would think.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 751
There is no case play needed.

All you have to know is the rule defining a dribble.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 08:49pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Should I put away my modern electronic calculator and go back to using my old trusty slide ruler?
I use an abacus.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 09:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I can't find the exact play, just this:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS

SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)


Keep in mind that in Situation 6, A1 had not already dribbled the ball before "passing".

bob jenkins: What exact case play or interpretation were you referring to for the original post (illegal dribble)?
Isn't that sufficient to answer the OP, where the player had already ended a dribble?

And, here's the NCAAW case play (the rule, and the ruling, is the same in FED):
A.R. 73.
A1, after:
(1)
Receiving a pass; or
(2)
Ending her dribble,
A1 passes the ball to A2 Before receiving the pass, A2 leaves the area on a
cut to the basket A1 goes to the area vacated by A2 and recovers the ball
RULING: In order for a pass to occur, the thrown ball must be
touched by another player. This did not occur in (1) or (2).
(1) A1’s attempted pass was the start of her dribble. When she
recovered the ball and started another dribble, she would have
committed a violation. (Had A1, after releasing the pass, which was
the start of the dribble, not recovered the ball but rather continued to
dribble, it would not have been a violation.)
(2) A1 had previously ended a dribble before her attempted pass to
A2. A1’s release of the ball on her attempted pass to A2 was the start of
a second dribble. A1 committed a violation after she touched the ball.
(Rule 4-14.2 and 9-7.1.c)

Last edited by bob jenkins; Sun Jan 22, 2017 at 09:13pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 09:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Eastern Connecticut
Posts: 137
If the dribbler ended his dribble, he can't recover his own pass. The pass itself is beginning a dribble, and since the player had already used his dribble, this is an illegal dribble.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 10:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Maybe he could not find the play? I have yet to see anyone quote the actual play in the rulebook or case book. Some officials have not learned how to read both and look up plays. That is after all what this forum is designed for I would think.

Peace
You're right. Sorry Dcran. I thought answer was obvious if you read rule book at all. Don't want forum to be substitute for reading rules. I shouldn't have assumed you looking for easy answer rather than studying rules.

It's in the dribble rule. 4-15. If you toss the ball to the floor and go pick it up after it hits the floor without someone else touching it..it is a dribble. In your play the player already dribbled. He's dribbled again. Illegal dribble.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 22, 2017, 11:35pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,742
Alexa, Can You Give Me A Back Massage ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Don't want forum to be substitute for reading rules.
What's wrong with reading about rules on the Forum? What makes the Forum so different than a book made out of dead trees, or an electronic book? Someday (maybe it's already happening) we may be able to hear answers from the Forum, for those that may not be able to read, or that may be blind. We already can see videos of the plays we talk about when many Forum members have the ability to post such videos.

I received an Amazon Echo Dot for Christmas and it can do amazing things. In the near future I may be able to say, "Alexa. Here's a basketball play. A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What NFHS rules, or case plays, apply here, and can you please download a video showing me an example of such a situation?"

Gutenberg died over 500 years ago. He had a nice run, but it's time to move on.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 23, 2017 at 07:03am.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 23, 2017, 05:44am
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcran View Post
Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?
Couldn't find if it was determined whether you were an official or a fan. In case you were a fan, I want to say the answers you have gotten would be appropriate for NFHS and NCAA rule set. However if this was played under NBA rules:

Your play would be a traveling call...it would not matter if the player had his dribble or not.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 23, 2017, 07:00am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,742
Release Or Touch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
A1’s release of the ball on her attempted pass to A2 was the start of a second dribble. A1 committed a violation after she touched the ball.
Thanks bob jenkins.

Even though it's NCAA, it's an interesting interpretation because some, here on the Forum, in similar plays, have a belief that the illegal dribble occurs when the ball is "release(d)" to start the second dribble, whereas this interpretation states that the violation occurs when the ball is "touched". The NCAA makes this clear, the NFHS doesn't.

I prefer the NCAA interpretation, allowing for the possibility that the release for the second "dribble" may actually be the start of a really ugly pass. I believe that it's good to have a patient whistle in these situations.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
legal? mikeref Basketball 6 Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:04am
Legal or not legal player splitveer Basketball 4 Wed Feb 10, 2010 01:10pm
Legal or not IRISHMAFIA Softball 7 Sun Sep 20, 2009 08:50pm
legal or not? Johnny Ringo Basketball 13 Wed Jan 02, 2008 07:23pm
Is This Legal? coachmjw Basketball 5 Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:22am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1