Legal or not

[Dcran]

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Dcran

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?

What do you have?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dcran

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?

I have the exact play being in an interp or case play.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Dcran

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?

If you are a fan and want to know answer I have no issue telling you. If you are a referee I'd tell you to read the case and rule book. The answer is there as Bob said. No substitute for reading

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I have the exact play being in an interp or case play.

I can't find the exact play, just this:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS

SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

Keep in mind that in Situation 6, A1 had not already dribbled the ball before "passing".

bob jenkins: What exact case play or interpretation were you referring to for the original post (illegal dribble)?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

No substitute for reading

What's wrong with doing research and "reading" something on the internet? After all, this is the twenty-first century. And this is coming from an old geezer. Should I put away my modern electronic calculator and go back to using my old trusty slide ruler?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If you are a fan and want to know answer I have no issue telling you. If you are a referee I'd tell you to read the case and rule book. The answer is there as Bob said. No substitute for reading

Maybe he could not find the play? I have yet to see anyone quote the actual play in the rulebook or case book. Some officials have not learned how to read both and look up plays. That is after all what this forum is designed for I would think.

Peace

[asdf]

There is no case play needed.

All you have to know is the rule defining a dribble.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Should I put away my modern electronic calculator and go back to using my old trusty slide ruler?

I use an abacus.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can't find the exact play, just this:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS

SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

Keep in mind that in Situation 6, A1 had not already dribbled the ball before "passing".

bob jenkins: What exact case play or interpretation were you referring to for the original post (illegal dribble)?

Isn't that sufficient to answer the OP, where the player had already ended a dribble?

And, here's the NCAAW case play (the rule, and the ruling, is the same in FED):
A.R. 73.
A1, after:
(1)
Receiving a pass; or
(2)
Ending her dribble,
A1 passes the ball to A2 Before receiving the pass, A2 leaves the area on a
cut to the basket A1 goes to the area vacated by A2 and recovers the ball
RULING: In order for a pass to occur, the thrown ball must be
touched by another player. This did not occur in (1) or (2).
(1) A1’s attempted pass was the start of her dribble. When she
recovered the ball and started another dribble, she would have
committed a violation. (Had A1, after releasing the pass, which was
the start of the dribble, not recovered the ball but rather continued to
dribble, it would not have been a violation.)
(2) A1 had previously ended a dribble before her attempted pass to
A2. A1’s release of the ball on her attempted pass to A2 was the start of
a second dribble. A1 committed a violation after she touched the ball.
(Rule 4-14.2 and 9-7.1.c)

[Mbilica]

If the dribbler ended his dribble, he can't recover his own pass. The pass itself is beginning a dribble, and since the player had already used his dribble, this is an illegal dribble.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe he could not find the play? I have yet to see anyone quote the actual play in the rulebook or case book. Some officials have not learned how to read both and look up plays. That is after all what this forum is designed for I would think.

Peace

You're right. Sorry Dcran. I thought answer was obvious if you read rule book at all. Don't want forum to be substitute for reading rules. I shouldn't have assumed you looking for easy answer rather than studying rules.

It's in the dribble rule. 4-15. If you toss the ball to the floor and go pick it up after it hits the floor without someone else touching it..it is a dribble. In your play the player already dribbled. He's dribbled again. Illegal dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Don't want forum to be substitute for reading rules.

What's wrong with reading about rules on the Forum? What makes the Forum so different than a book made out of dead trees, or an electronic book? Someday (maybe it's already happening) we may be able to hear answers from the Forum, for those that may not be able to read, or that may be blind. We already can see videos of the plays we talk about when many Forum members have the ability to post such videos.

I received an Amazon Echo Dot for Christmas and it can do amazing things. In the near future I may be able to say, "Alexa. Here's a basketball play. A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What NFHS rules, or case plays, apply here, and can you please download a video showing me an example of such a situation?"

Gutenberg died over 500 years ago. He had a nice run, but it's time to move on.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Dcran

Not sure if I sent my last question. Sorry if this is a repeat.

A1 picks up his dribble to pass to A2. A2 doesn't see the pass as they turn away. A1 runs and grabs the errant pass. What do you have if anything?

Couldn't find if it was determined whether you were an official or a fan. In case you were a fan, I want to say the answers you have gotten would be appropriate for NFHS and NCAA rule set. However if this was played under NBA rules:

Your play would be a traveling call...it would not matter if the player had his dribble or not.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1’s release of the ball on her attempted pass to A2 was the start of a second dribble. A1 committed a violation after she touched the ball.

Thanks bob jenkins.

Even though it's NCAA, it's an interesting interpretation because some, here on the Forum, in similar plays, have a belief that the illegal dribble occurs when the ball is "release(d)" to start the second dribble, whereas this interpretation states that the violation occurs when the ball is "touched". The NCAA makes this clear, the NFHS doesn't.

I prefer the NCAA interpretation, allowing for the possibility that the release for the second "dribble" may actually be the start of a really ugly pass. I believe that it's good to have a patient whistle in these situations.