Made shot and simultaneous off ball foul

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

so let's say:

A1 jumps and releases shot;

while A1 is still airborne, B5 pushes A5; official signals foul (team B's 6th);

before A1 returns to the ground, B1 slides his hips into A1's legs and fouls him (team B's 7th);

A1's try is unsuccessful.

After A1's free-throws, does A get the ball nearest to B5's foul because B5's foul was the 6th team foul? Or does A5 shoot 1 & 1 because B has 7 fouls by the time we're dealing with B5's push?

A1 shoots 2. Play on from the results of the second FT.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I had this situation occur in a wreck league game last week, which is played under NFHS rules with a couple modifications for timeouts and timing.

2 Man mechanics. I was trail, and the shot occurred right in front of me, FT line extended. Partner was lead and called the pushing foul against the defense. We counted the score and gave the ball back to team A on the endline.

There was a couple players who thought that either Team B should get the ball, or it should be an "and 1," and the player that got pushed should shoot the FT. We ignored it and played on.

Team B's star player was on the bench at this point with a pulled hamstring(which occurred late in the first half, so he hadn't played at all during the 2nd half). He was one of the most vocal about the "and 1" scenario. We just ignored him and played on.

With about a minute and a half left in the game, and Team A from this situation leading about about 12 points or so, I ended up ejecting 2 players from team B. Team B's star player with the hamstring injury ended up coming back in the game just because of their numbers, and he came over and told me that he had looked up the rule about the earlier play and that we were wrong. I asked him what rulebook. He said NBA. I told him we played High School Rules, and his response was, "Why High School? I would think we should play games according to a ruleset closer to our ages." I Just chuckled and said if he wanted us to play NBA rules, to talk to the league director, and adjust our pay accordingly so we could go learn the NBA rules to use. But the funniest part was when an opposing player in the vicinity said, "The tantrums that your buddies just got thrown out for looked more like the high school variety than anything the NBA would allow."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I had this situation occur in a wreck league game last week, which is played under NFHS rules with a couple modifications for timeouts and timing.

2 Man mechanics. I was trail, and the shot occurred right in front of me, FT line extended. Partner was lead and called the pushing foul against the defense. We counted the score and gave the ball back to team A on the endline.

There was a couple players who thought that either Team B should get the ball, or it should be an "and 1," and the player that got pushed should shoot the FT. We ignored it and played on.

Team B's star player was on the bench at this point with a pulled hamstring(which occurred late in the first half, so he hadn't played at all during the 2nd half). He was one of the most vocal about the "and 1" scenario. We just ignored him and played on.

With about a minute and a half left in the game, and Team A from this situation leading about about 12 points or so, I ended up ejecting 2 players from team B. Team B's star player with the hamstring injury ended up coming back in the game just because of their numbers, and he came over and told me that he had looked up the rule about the earlier play and that we were wrong. I asked him what rulebook. He said NBA. I told him we played High School Rules, and his response was, "Why High School? I would think we should play games according to a ruleset closer to our ages." I Just chuckled and said if he wanted us to play NBA rules, to talk to the league director, and adjust our pay accordingly so we could go learn the NBA rules to use. But the funniest part was when an opposing player in the vicinity said, "The tantrums that your buddies just got thrown out for looked more like the high school variety than anything the NBA would allow."

I think a quick explanation is better than ignoring it.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think a quick explanation is better than ignoring it.

Point taken.

And I would say that we did give a brief explanation to the guys on the floor -- didn't totally ignore them. But the guy on the bench yelling from the other end of the floor, I did ignore.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

After A1's free-throws, does A get the ball nearest to B5's foul because B5's foul was the 6th team foul? Or does A5 shoot 1 & 1 because B has 7 fouls by the time we're dealing with B5's push?

Saw essentially the same dilemma actually happen in a HS tournament game. White called for a foul (the 6th TF), instead of stopping on the whistle, a white player takes a couple of dribbles and dunks the ball (?!?!? and it was his 4th PF!). Officials confer, and then decide it is a T for dunking a dead ball. (No, I don't know why they had to confer.) As the blue team in-bounded after the T FTs, many fans were yelling for bonus FTs (as the scoreboard was showing 7 fouls).

I believe the referees were correct:m the foul was not the 7th TF, so no bonus FTs were proper. And I believe that is the same answer in your scenario.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 shoots 2. Play on from the results of the second FT.

Is that because we punish in the order the fouls occurred, so the FTs are last and live (so the TI just gets lost in the shuffle)?

If a foul that warranted FTs happened first and a non-shooting foul occurred before play died, would it be FTs followed by the TI for the common foul?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Saw essentially the same dilemma actually happen in a HS tournament game. White called for a foul (the 6th TF), instead of stopping on the whistle, a white player takes a couple of dribbles and dunks the ball (?!?!? and it was his 4th PF!). Officials confer, and then decide it is a T for dunking a dead ball. (No, I don't know why they had to confer.) As the blue team in-bounded after the T FTs, many fans were yelling for bonus FTs (as the scoreboard was showing 7 fouls).

I believe the referees were correct:m the foul was not the 7th TF, so no bonus FTs were proper. And I believe that is the same answer in your scenario.

Plus, foul #6 must have been a TC foul on white, so no FTs anyway. And, if white was already driving when the whistle happened, I doubt I'd T (HTBT).

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Is that because we punish in the order the fouls occurred, so the FTs are last and live (so the TI just gets lost in the shuffle)?

If a foul that warranted FTs happened first and a non-shooting foul occurred before play died, would it be FTs followed by the TI for the common foul?

a) Yes
b) Yes, if the second is before the bonus.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Plus, foul #6 must have been a TC foul on white, so no FTs anyway. And, if white was already driving when the whistle happened, I doubt I'd T (HTBT).



a) Yes
b) Yes, if the second is before the bonus.

Thanks Bob!

(Twasn't a TC foul -- he got the ball as a result of the foul. From my comfy seat in the stands it seemed pretty clear that he knew the play was dead and just chose to go ahead and dunk the ball because he could. As I recall, he started his two dribbles to the basket after the whistle blew.)