NFHS brawl

[Adam]

I would add that for officials, the ensuing suspensions are not our business. Suspensions are enforced by the state governing bodies, not game officials.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Adam

I would add that for officials, the ensuing suspensions are not our business. Suspensions are enforced by the state governing bodies, not game officials.

Adam is correct. The weak link in the chain, however -- at least around here -- has been an occasional neglect of the necessary reporting to the state the official needs to do the night of or morning after the infraction. Some states require a report to the state for even an unsporting technical. Others for two technicals or a flagrant on a player or an adult bench personnel ejection. It's up to us to know what the states in which we work require and to comply with what's expected of us.

[SC Official]

SC requires us to fill out an "ejection report" "whenever a player or coach is ejected" (or some vague wording along those lines). It's universally understood that, for basketball, this means a report is required whenever any individual receives two technical fouls, a single flagrant technical or personal foul, or a head coach receives three indirect technical fouls.

It is expected that the official who issues the second 'T' will be the one to submit the report in a garden-variety "ejection."

And I agree with Adam. Anything that happens as a result of the penalties we assess for participants' actions is not our business even though some officials think it is.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I don't think you read the NFHS Basketball Rules very well.

Please read very caefully: R4-S14-A1; and the NOTE for the PENALTY for R4-S6.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by jamesshank

R4-S14-A1 discusses DQ only; the only reference to ejection I found was in the case book in which it describes ejection from further participation in the current game only. In Washington, when a player/coach is ejected an ejection report is filed and the player or coach must sit the next game.

James:

R4-S14-A1 defines how a Player is Disqualified. The word "Player" in this definition does not just mean the five (5) players currently participating in the game but also to the Substitutes who are not currently participating in the game. A "player" who is Disqualified cannot continue to participate in the game. Purge the word "ejection" from your vocabulary with respect to "players" who are Disqualified. To say that a "player" has been "ejected" would be incorrect by rule.

The NOTE for the PENALTY for R4-S6 deals with the Head Coach and all other Adult Bench Personnel. By rule the HC is both Disqualified and Ejected and all other Adult Bench Personnel are Ejected.

If you think I am picking nits with regard to these two rules, you would be absolutely correct. Being precise and using correct terminology is what separates the rules experts (game officials) and the players, coaches, game administrators, fans, the press, some members of the rules committee and StateHSAA administrators, and especially howler monkeys (idiot coaches and ignorant talking heads) and fans boys (idiot fans).

As a historian of the rules of the game, a former rules interpreter, and a past member of several IAABO national committees, nothing fries my tuchus more that officials that do not speak the rules correctly.

MTD, Sr.

[jamesshank]

As a historian of the rules of the game, a former rules interpreter, and a past member of several IAABO national committees, nothing fries my tuchus more that officials that do not speak the rules correctly.

I agree completely and I really appreciate this forum because it allows a complete discussion with like-minded individuals so that I can be better and more correct in my verbiage...thank you

[jamesshank]

It is expected that the official who issues the second 'T' will be the one to submit the report in a garden-variety "ejection."

And I agree with Adam. Anything that happens as a result of the penalties we assess for participants' actions is not our business even though some officials think it is.

Agreed, it's none of my business nor do I care, I just want to administer correctly if/when it occurs to me...thanks

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jamesshank

Agreed, it's none of my business nor do I care, I just want to administer correctly if/when it occurs to me...thanks

I have no idea what this means? If you know a player was "tossed" in the previous game (and your state policy is next game suspension), however the governing body has not handed down the suspension you cannot disallow the kid to play. That's the administration's and governing body's job.

There is nothing to "administer" other than telling the coach/kid/game management that they are done for the day and/or have to leave the confines.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jamesshank

Agreed, it's none of my business nor do I care, I just want to administer correctly if/when it occurs to me...thanks

That's just my point, we only are concerned with the current game. There's nothing for us to administer with regard to the next game.

[Amesman]

Whenever I go to the fancy pants restaurant in town, they always recommend the roasted tuchus. They say fried tuchus is much too tough.

[jamesshank]

Originally Posted by deecee

I have no idea what this means? If you know a player was "tossed" in the previous game (and your state policy is next game suspension), however the governing body has not handed down the suspension you cannot disallow the kid to play. That's the administration's and governing body's job.

There is nothing to "administer" other than telling the coach/kid/game management that they are done for the day and/or have to leave the confines.

Either your wanting a conflict or I am doing a terrible job explaining my position. I'll attempt to clarify; I agree, as previous poster suggested, that what happens after/between the next games are none of my business. I started this thread to help me correctly administer if this happens in a game of mine in the future as I feel there were some discrepancies with DQ/ejection in regard to my state. Ejection carries a different penalty as I understand it in Washington, so I was seeking clarity in the difference between DQ/ejection according to fed rules. Thanks again for all of the assistance.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Whenever I go to the fancy pants restaurant in town, they always recommend the roasted tuchus. They say fried tuchus is much too tough.

ROFLMTO!!

MTD, Sr.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jamesshank

I started this thread to help me correctly administer if this happens in a game of mine in the future as I feel there were some discrepancies with DQ/ejection in regard to my state. Ejection carries a different penalty as I understand it in Washington, so I was seeking clarity in the difference between DQ/ejection according to fed rules. Thanks again for all of the assistance.

I guarantee you they are using the terms technically incorrect. Most of us say when a player gets 2 T's or a flagrant they are "ejected". We know what it means but the term disqualified is very rarely used when actually speaking among other officials.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by jamesshank

Either your wanting a conflict or I am doing a terrible job explaining my position. I'll attempt to clarify; I agree, as previous poster suggested, that what happens after/between the next games are none of my business. I started this thread to help me correctly administer if this happens in a game of mine in the future as I feel there were some discrepancies with DQ/ejection in regard to my state. Ejection carries a different penalty as I understand it in Washington, so I was seeking clarity in the difference between DQ/ejection according to fed rules. Thanks again for all of the assistance.

And yet you still insist using the word "ejection" when referring to a player/team member who has been "disqualified" because of committing two TFs or committing a single FF.

I officiate H.S. basketball in both Ohio (GO BUCKEYES!!) and Michigan (that school up north, meh), and both the OhioHSAA and the MichiganHSAA use NFHS Basketball Rules. Both the OhioHSAA and the MichiganHSAA have "extra judicial" penalties for players/team members who commit two TFs or a single FF, and guess what word both organizations use: ejection! Which is incorrect per NFHS Rules.

When I have a player who has been disqualified for committing two TFs or a single FF, I use the correct terminology: disqualified! Remember what I said in an earlier comment: StateHSAA administrators are just as ignorant of the rules as coaches are and we, as officials, should not lower our standards by using the incorrect words that StateHSAA administrators use.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by deecee

I guarantee you they are using the terms technically incorrect. Most of us say when a player gets 2 T's or a flagrant they are "ejected". We know what it means but the term disqualified is very rarely used when actually speaking among other officials.

deecee:

Read what I have said in previous comments!

MTD, Sr.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

deecee:

Read what I have said in previous comments!

MTD, Sr.

You're in the minority then. The most common term used IMO is "done" as in "the player is done for the day" in cases where a coach gets "done" its either "got the boot" or "tossed" as in "I tossed him faster than he could say supercalifragelisticexpialidocious."

I hardly every use the actual terms ejected/disqualified when speaking with officials, or even coaches for that matter. In the end, no one but us care. The only difference is where one has to sit for the remainder of the contest.