Basket-brawl

[Johnny Ringo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQhWJWNpp4

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQhWJWNpp4

Looked like an average hockey game.

[truerookie]

What's caught my attention is the position of the officials. Look at where the Center is located. It is my belief if the Center was in proper position he would have seen all of the extra action which occurred in the lane. This is just my observation.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by truerookie

What's caught my attention is the position of the officials. Look at where the Center is located. It is my belief if the Center was in proper position he would have seen all of the extra action which occurred in the lane. This is just my observation.

Good observation, if it's in his right spot, he's running in whistle blowing with a double foul and he's right there to clean it up before it gets started. When I see poor officiating like this, it gives me hope that one day I will get a chance.

[BoomerSooner]

Does anybody know how the situation was finally handled by the crew? It looked like as many as 3 Lobos came off the bench seeing as how I counted 8 white jerseys.

Regardless, this reminds me of a situation regarding HS ball, where we don't have the advantage of video replay to determine who threw punches or came off the bench. How do you guys handle this type of situation in 2 or 3-man mechanics. Obviously there is a strong desire to squash the fight, but how do you guys do so and still record #'s and observe the bench players? I've never really encountered a multi-player fight, so I guess it may just come down to instincts and adrenaline, but sometimes even the 1 on 1 fights can get pretty intense in terms of handling the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

Does anybody know how the situation was finally handled by the crew? It looked like as many as 3 Lobos came off the bench seeing as how I counted 8 white jerseys.

Regardless, this reminds me of a situation regarding HS ball, where we don't have the advantage of video replay to determine who threw punches or came off the bench. How do you guys handle this type of situation in 2 or 3-man mechanics. Obviously there is a strong desire to squash the fight, but how do you guys do so and still record #'s and observe the bench players? I've never really encountered a multi-player fight, so I guess it may just come down to instincts and adrenaline, but sometimes even the 1 on 1 fights can get pretty intense in terms of handling the situation.

I've had three flagrant situations. One was a single player as his opponent did not fight back. Calling the foul immediately helped in that regard, my partner was right on top of it.
The second was only two players, all by themselves. No one came crashing in, and no one left the bench.
The other was a little more complicated. My partner was on it calling an intentional (that's how it started until B1 finished of his bear hug with a take down on A1). The players started scuffling and I started hitting my whistle. I stayed back to watch numbers (I was lead table side, ball was backcourt during a press). A2 jumps into the fray. My partner was in the middle of it all, so I think it helped to have a cooler head outside it all observing and taking mental notes.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Old School

When I see poor officiating like this, it gives me hope that one day I will get a chance.

Good point, OS. Even really poor officials can hope! To hang any of this mess on the officials and judge them as poor is ludicrous. You didn't see the rest of the game to that point. You would not be man eough to jump in there and grab those hooligans like the refs did.

[SamIAm]

Old news.


Wyoming/UNM Fight 1/31

[bigdogrunnin]

In 2- or 3-person games, at least ONE official should ALWAYS stay out and look for numbers and players. In my pregames we always cover this, no matter what. Goes something like . . .

OK guys, if we have a situation where there is a fight or flagrant act, the closest official(s) can go in and try to break up the fight. The official that is farthest from the fight, and has the best general perspective to what is happening across the entire area of the floor, holds tight to get numbers of anyone who participates in the fight or leaves the bench. Make good mental notes so we get the offending players off the floor.

I know it is not the same situation, but I use the same philosophy for handling jump balls too. Closest official goes in to get the jump ball called. The official farthest from the action holds tight to make sure that no "funny business" is happening between any of the players at or around the same time.

[Ignats75]

Never, ever jump into the middle of a fight. What happens if any of these occur?

• You grab a player from behind and he gets punched in the mouth?
• You grab a player from behind to pull him off, you both fall over and he blows his knee out?
• You grab a player from behind and he turns around and punches you in the face?
• You step between two players and all three of you fall in aheap and one kid hits his head on the floor?
• (Girls) You step into a fight and while trying to break it up inadvertantly touch a girl in the wrong place?

Nothing good is going to come from you stepping into the middle of it. Step back and take numbers of who leaves the bench. Better yet, be attentive and in position and "Nip it, Nip it in the Bud. Unlike the C in the video. Good catch there true rookie.

[mplagrow]

I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with Ignats75, although in the heat of things, I know I'd probably react differently. You better have good insurance and a good lawyer if you are going to jump in and grab/hold/pull a player. That's enough for a lot of lawyers to go after you. Of course, they'd probably sue you for standing by, too.

[bigdogrunnin]

I agree with everything you posted Ignats . . . but I did say CAN, not should or will, as I would never tell another official what actions to take in a clearly unsafe situation. I think that decision needs to be left up to the officials on the floor at the time to use their best judgement in what actions they might take. I think the video shows a situation of "too far gone," and at that point I (personally) step out and take numbers. The official in the middle got kicked, kneed, and stepped on while trying to protect one of the players. Not my bag of tea . . . Did you see him bent over after the fact? He was hurt, or hurting . . .

As for the official ("C") not being in position . . . I have heard it time and time again, "It is better to have two C's, than to have two T's!" He was definitely WAY out of position, and yes, he should have been on top of it with a double foul.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

Good point, OS. Even really poor officials can hope! To hang any of this mess on the officials and judge them as poor is ludicrous. You didn't see the rest of the game to that point. You would not be man eough to jump in there and grab those hooligans like the refs did.

You're right, but it's not being a man jumping in there like that, it's being stupid. And that proves my point. I have a very good chance of making it when I see poor performances like this. Now if you want to jump in there and do that because you was late on the call an out of position. You go right ahead. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the show, watching you get plummeted!!

This also proves my point about officiating. This referee reminded me of JR who's out there thinking of a case play and what rule describes this situation instead of being in his proper position to officiate the play. That's how come he's out of position. Good officiating is also about being in the right place at the right time. This know-how can not be learned from a book. It's like playing, you either got it or you don't. Basing an officials ability on how well he can quote a rulebook is also ludicrous, but you guys do me this way. How far am I back now? I believe it's the YWCA.

The C official here, should have been at the FT line extended and should have come in with a double foul, jump ball or possession arrow because the foul occur on the rebound, no team control, base line out. You see, didn't need a rulebook for that, don't need to refer to a case play either. Now go find that in the rulebook and come back and tell me how wrong I am again. I'll be waiting....and my name is old school, try not to get me confused with this jmo character.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Old School

You're right, but it's not being a man jumping in there like that, it's being stupid. And that proves my point. I have a very good chance of making it when I see poor performances like this. Now if you want to jump in there and do that because you was late on the call an out of position. You go right ahead. I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the show, watching you get plummeted!!
This also proves my point about officiating. This referee reminded me of JR who's out there thinking of a case play and what rule describes this situation instead of being in his proper position to officiate the play. That's how come he's out of position. Good officiating is also about being in the right place at the right time. This know-how can not be learned from a book. It's like playing, you either got it or you don't. Basing an officials ability on how well he can quote a rulebook is also ludicrous, but you guys do me this way. How far am I back now? I believe it's the YWCA.

The C official here, should have been at the FT line extended and should have come in with a double foul, jump ball or possession arrow because the foul occur on the rebound, no team control, base line out. You see, didn't need a rulebook for that, don't need to refer to a case play either. Now go find that in the rulebook and come back and tell me how wrong I am again. I'll be waiting....and my name is old school, try not to get me confused with this jmo character.

Never heard that usage for 'plummeted' before. Then again, I have never heard applications for rules that you espouse before, either.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Good officiating is also about being in the right place at the right time. This know-how can not be learned from a book.

Let me help you out here a little bit, JMO. NCAA officials use a mechanics book. That tells them how to be in the right place at the right time. NFHS officials have their own mechanics book. That also tells them how to be in the right place at the right time. Rec league officials don't know that these previously mentioned mechanics books even exist, let alone the fact that there are actually such things like real live rule books also(). That's why they remain rec league officials forever and all time.

An NCAA official may occasionally be out of position. That may cost him sometimes too, as in a situation like this. That doesn't make him a poor official though. If he was a poor official, he would have been long-gone by now. Poor officials don't last at that level.

You aren't qualified to comment on any official, let alone a D1 official.