Timing question

[mj]

Team A behind by 1 inbounding from their back court with .9 remaining in the game. They throw a length of the court pass that is tipped out of bounds. Clock is still at .9 after the whistle blows. Can there be any time taken off the clock?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Yes, but only if you have definite knowledge of how much time should have ticked off.

[bob jenkins]

"Likely tenths of seconds" according to an NFHS interp (see the sticky thread of the interps for the past 15 years or so)

[mj]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Yes, but only if you have definite knowledge of how much time should have ticked off.

Understand that part that you need definite knowledge by rule. Many around here saying they would take .3 off because the tip rule. I'm not so sure...

[mj]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Likely tenths of seconds" according to an NFHS interp (see the sticky thread of the interps for the past 15 years or so)

I'll look Bob thank you!

[BryanV21]

Since there was no count by an official in this situation (assuming by "length of court pass" meaning it wasn't tipped in the backcourt, so no ten-second count was started), can there be "definite knowledge"?

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Since there was no count by an official in this situation (assuming by "length of court pass" meaning it wasn't tipped in the backcourt, so no ten-second count was started), can there be "definite knowledge"?

Definite knowledge doesn't mean there had to be a visual count (e.g. backcourt/closely guarded). I keep my own count on last second plays just for situations like this where something goes wrong with the clock. I'd have definite knowledge that something other than 0.0 should have come off the clock, although I know this has been debated before and I think it's about 50/50 on those who agree with this interpretation.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Definite knowledge doesn't mean there had to be a visual count (e.g. backcourt/closely guarded). I keep my own count on last second plays just for situations like this where something goes wrong with the clock. I'd have definite knowledge that something other than 0.0 should have come off the clock, although I know this has been debated before and I think it's about 50/50 on those who agree with this interpretation.

I totally agree that some time should be taken off, but not sure how to do that with definite knowledge.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Since there was no count by an official in this situation (assuming by "length of court pass" meaning it wasn't tipped in the backcourt, so no ten-second count was started), can there be "definite knowledge"?

According to Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, and Neil deGrasse Tyson--yes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Likely tenths of seconds" according to an NFHS interp (see the sticky thread of the interps for the past 15 years or so)

Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2009-10

SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Since there was no count by an official in this situation (assuming by "length of court pass" meaning it wasn't tipped in the backcourt, so no ten-second count was started), can there be "definite knowledge"?

An official can have a count in his or her head. Such a count could easily get you to half or a full second. If you get to a full second, game over. If half, then put it in play with .4. Some will note that you could get a fairly accurate count down to tenths of a second, but that's a harder sell IMO. I might be willing to sell quarters if I was cognizant enough to actually count it.

[Nevadaref]

I can't count in tenths of a second. Timers make mistakes.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I can't count in tenths of a second. Timers make mistakes.

Can you count in Mississippi's? If so, you've got a count in 0.2 second increments.

• One - 0.2
• Miss - 0.4
• i - 0.6
• ssi - 0.8
• ppi - 1.0

If your cadence is not quite regular, it may not be exactly accurate, but it would be a valid count.

[deecee]

I'm taking off .3 seconds. I am making an allowance for the clock starting on the tip and going out of bounds. There is a threshold that you can be 100% certain that much time went off the clock without knowing how much actually went off. You just need to apply some common sense.

In most cases in what was described I would be 100% certain that .3 seconds as that number increases my certainty decreases.

[Adam]

.3 seconds refers to catching and releasing a ball. It has nothing to do with the time it takes a ball to go from being tipped to hitting out of bounds. Depending on the player's proximity to the line, it could easily be less than .3 seconds. One could maybe make the case that the NFHS ruling requires at least .1, but .3 comes out of thin air for this situation.