CE offense loses a posession

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But, it was rebounded. B earned the ball at that moment. Why should A get it any more than B?

B committed a foul. If B winds up with the ball and the free throw is disallowed, this means that B was not penalized for the foul.

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

B committed a foul. If B winds up with the ball and the free throw is disallowed, this means that B was not penalized for the foul.

Seems like A is being penalized for an error by the table or officials.
I doubt ANYONE would complain about A getting a throw-in instead of the unmerited free throws at this point... just seems right!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

B committed a foul. If B winds up with the ball and the free throw is disallowed, this means that B was not penalized for the foul.

That goes back to the point of A being on top of things and not taking a set of FTs they didn't deserve. It is not pretty either way you go and someone will lose out.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That goes back to the point of A being on top of things and not taking a set of FTs they didn't deserve. It is not pretty either way you go and someone will lose out.

It goes back to the point of officials being on top of things. It's distasteful to put the onus on coaches instead of on us. Coaches are looking at the team foul count on the scoreboard. We want coaches coaching their teams every other time during the game except when there's a correctable error. Any officials who blame a coach for this lack accountability.

If there's a correctable error situation, it's our fault for not paying attention to the scoreboard every time a team foul is committed. It's not that hard to do for an official who cares about his craft.

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[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It goes back to the point of officials being on top of things. It's distasteful to put the onus on coaches instead of on us. Coaches are looking at the team foul count on the scoreboard. We want coaches coaching their teams every other time during the game except when there's a correctable error. Any officials who blame a coach for this lack accountability.

If there's a correctable error situation, it's our fault for not paying attention to the scoreboard every time a team foul is committed. It's not that hard to do for an official who cares about his craft.

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I try to keep track because I know the rule and that if we have one somebody is going to get screwed. I'm the one who is going to have to deal with the aftermath of the screwup. Also, I wouldnt ever blame the coach directly for not knowing fouls. However, each team is supposed to have a scorer, scorers are to confer etc. If I miss a foul etc for whatever reason i will feel bad and hate the situation, but there were supposed to be two other people doing that job before it came to me. If team A doesnt have a scorer that part is on the coach.

As a coach I never expected referees to keep foul counts or blamed them if there was an error. I looked at my scorer....As a referee i want the game to go smoothly so i try to keep them but i dont always for one reason or another.

What i will always do is periodically touch base with the scorer about team fouls and ask other scorer if he or she agrees.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

... it's our fault for not paying attention to the scoreboard every time a team foul is committed ...

Assuming that the scoreboard is correct 100% of the time, which we all know isn't always true.

I hate it when scorekeepers put the sixth foul on the scoreboard with our preliminary signal. Now, on our way to the reporting area, we check for the bonus, see six fouls already on the board, assume that the foul we are now reporting is going to be the seventh foul, and get ready, in error, for the bonus.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Any officials who blame a coach for this lack accountability.

I haven't read a single thing in this thread where someone "blames" the coaches.

Yes, we should try to avoid it. Sometimes we can't. "Are you sure that's the seventh foul?" "Yes, I've double checked," says the book (and the other book).

After the FT -- "buzz."

It's a lot like having 4 or 6 players on the court -- all of us (three officials, two coaches, 8 assistants, ...) should be checking for it -- but it happens.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"buzz."

Almost never a good sound for an official to hear at an unexpected time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Assuming that the scoreboard is correct 100% of the time, which we all know isn't always true.
....

Which is why I frequently have the scoreboard corrected. I pay attention before and after foul calls. I note the count in my head during time-outs and other dead balls. I'll check with the table between quarters and ensure both books and the scoreboard all reflect the same foul counts.

But this notion that the CE rules are written so that the HCs of the teams will be more diligent than the officials just doesn't wash with me.

Does someone have source for this supposed reasoning?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I note the count in my head during time-outs and other dead balls.

[just another ref]

Around here there are still several scoreboards which do not have the team foul count in the display, and there are even more than that which have it but nobody bothers to do that part. And it seems to get worse every year as far as the table turning on the bonus light at the proper time. And an interesting footnote, out of all the schools I've ever been to, there is one where they think you turn on the bonus light which points to the bench of the team that is shooting.