0 and 00

[Rich]

I'd chalk it up as a transcription error.

Since 0 and 00 can't play at the same time, where's the confusion?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd chalk it up as a transcription error.

Since 0 and 00 can't play at the same time, where's the confusion?

I think I'll start verifying it's correct whenever I see 0 or 00 in the book and save the headache.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think I'll start verifying it's correct whenever I see 0 or 00 in the book and save the headache.

It doesn't matter what's in the book, only what is on the roster that the team submitted to the official scorer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It doesn't matter what's in the book, only what is on the roster that the team submitted to the official scorer.

Doesn't preclude me from verifying it's correctly input so I don't have to deal with it later. I prefer dealing with any book issues before the game, not during the game.

[Sharpshooternes]

So is it an administrative tech or a direct to the coach for an illegal uniform? What if both numbers are present can the coach avoid the tech by not playing one of them?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So is it an administrative tech or a direct to the coach for an illegal uniform? What if both numbers are present can the coach avoid the tech by not playing one of them?

The relevant rule then is 10-6-4: "The head coach shall not permit a tam member to participate while wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4)".

Does that answer the above question? Or is there some other casebook or interpretation that steers us in a different direction?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The relevant rule then is 10-6-4: "The head coach shall not permit a tam member to participate while wearing an illegal uniform (see 3-4)".

Does that answer the above question? Or is there some other casebook or interpretation that steers us in a different direction?

What part of the uniform was illegal? 0 is a legal number. Your cite would be relevant if the player was wearing 88, for example.

The relevant cite is "changing a number in the scorebook to match what the player is wearing." (or whatever the specific wording is)

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd chalk it up as a transcription error.

Since 0 and 00 can't play at the same time, where's the confusion?

I know this has been discussed on here before and it all came back to a NFHS interpretation that is posted on this website from the year 2008. It seems to indicate that they could play at the same time and the penalty would be for illegal uniform. At least, in NFHS.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

I know this has been discussed on here before and it all came back to a NFHS interpretation that is posted on this website from the year 2008. It seems to indicate that they could play at the same time and the penalty would be for illegal uniform. At least, in NFHS.

1999-2000 NFHS Interpretation:
SITUATION 11: Ten minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game, the Referee checks the scorebook for Team B and finds starters checked included player’s identified by number as 2, 35, 00, 31 and 0.
RULING: A technical foul is assessed Team B for having 00 and 0 in the book. While 0 and 00 are legal numbers, a team may not have both 0 and 00 on the team roster. Either player No. 00 or player No. 0 will be required to change jersey numbers prior to being eligible for participation. (3-4-3, 10-1-2)

2008-2009 NFHS Interpretation:
SITUATION 2: A team has members with No. 0 and No. 00 listed in the scorebook and it is discovered (a) with 14 minutes on the clock prior to the game, (b) with 8 minutes on the clock prior to the game or (c) after the game starts. RULING: In (a), changes can be made without penalty. In (b), if a number is changed in the scorebook, a team technical is charged. The offended team is awarded two free throws and a throw-in at the division line to begin the game. The arrow is toward the offending team. If no changes are made to the scorebook, no infraction has occurred. In (c), after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates. If the second team member wishes to participate, the result is an illegal number when "discovered." The penalty is a direct technical foul on the head coach for an illegal uniform. Two free throws and a division line throw-in for the offended team and loss of coaching box privileges for the offending coach. The second team member (with the illegal uniform number) may participate without further penalty and is NOT required to change his/her number. Another possibility exists after the game starts when one of the team members wants to change his/her number prior to participating. The result is a team technical foul (no loss of coaching box) for changing the scorebook. COMMENT: No team should have both No. 0 and No. 00 on its regular roster. The infraction is likely due to bringing a player up or down a level. Therefore, it is possible the team has access to other legal uniforms to replace a uniform with an illegal number. (3-4-3d; 10-1-2; 10-5-4)

[MD Longhorn]

Personally, this rule seems unnecessarily silly. An official can signal 00 or he can signal 0. No difference. we allow 33 and 3, don't we.

(And yes ... I believe 05 and 5 should be legal for the very same reason)

If they really have an issue with this, make 0 or 00 (or both) not legal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... make 0 or 00 (or both) not legal.

Logical. Rational. Simple. Let's do it.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Personally, this rule seems unnecessarily silly. An official can signal 00 or he can signal 0. No difference. we allow 33 and 3, don't we.

(And yes ... I believe 05 and 5 should be legal for the very same reason)

If they really have an issue with this, make 0 or 00 (or both) not legal.

I've always had the same thought.

That said, most rules that seem silly evolve from some incident in the past that gave rise to their origin.* I'd be interested if there is such a history with this rule.

* Good example: Some NCAA D1 title game several years back started with a held ball before the AP procedure had been established. So the two players involved then jumped. Apparently people took issue with this, feeling that the two centers should be allowed to jump again. The very next year, the rule was changed to allow this. Had this not happened in a D1 tourney game, I doubt anyone would ever have given two poops about it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I've always had the same thought.

That said, most rules that seem silly evolve from some incident in the past that gave rise to their origin.* I'd be interested if there is such a history with this rule.

* Good example: Some NCAA D1 title game several years back started with a held ball before the AP procedure had been established. So the two players involved then jumped. Apparently people took issue with this, feeling that the two centers should be allowed to jump again. The very next year, the rule was changed to allow this. Had this not happened in a D1 tourney game, I doubt anyone would ever have given two poops about it.

The history is that both numbers used to be allowed. Then, when they started going to "computerized" stats programs, the computers couldn't distinguish between the two, so only one was allowed.

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Personally, this rule seems unnecessarily silly. An official can signal 00 or he can signal 0. No difference. we allow 33 and 3, don't we.

(And yes ... I believe 05 and 5 should be legal for the very same reason)

The difference here is that 0 (or 5) has the same value as 00 (or 05), just with a meaningless zero added at the start. 3 does not have the same value as 33.

Because of the way computers work, there is no way for them to distinguish between 0 and 00, or 5 and 05, in some cases.

I'm of the firm belief that there should not be a T if there's a feasible case of computer error. I stress I'm not an official in any sport, but the last thing I want to see is a "technicality technical", if you know what I mean.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Because of the way computers work, there is no way for them to distinguish between 0 and 00, or 5 and 05, in some cases.

Of course there are. May not be as easy, but . . .