Hanging on the rim

[crosscountry55]

Sue me for opening an old thread, but I thought it made sense in this case. Partner called a hanging T last night. The other two of us were starting to put air in our whistles when he did. The dunker did the slightest little quarter chin-up, but what sealed the deal for us was the country minute that he hung for, without another soul anywhere nearby underneath. It was a no-brainer to all of us.

What was interesting was the coach’s argument. He knew he couldn’t talk about players underneath, so he insisted that his player had a right to keep hanging until he stopped swinging because he could break his neck if he didn’t. This wasn’t a flyer of an argument; he really believed himself.

Oh give me a break. I had to walk away. One of the dumber things I’ve ever heard a coach say. If dunking were so dangerous it would be illegal.


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[zm1283]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Sue me for opening an old thread, but I thought it made sense in this case. Partner called a hanging T last night. The other two of us were starting to put air in our whistles when he did. The dunker did the slightest little quarter chin-up, but what sealed the deal for us was the country minute that he hung for, without another soul anywhere nearby underneath. It was a no-brainer to all of us.

What was interesting was the coach’s argument. He knew he couldn’t talk about players underneath, so he insisted that his player had a right to keep hanging until he stopped swinging because he could break his neck if he didn’t. This wasn’t a flyer of an argument; he really believed himself.

Oh give me a break. I had to walk away. One of the dumber things I’ve ever heard a coach say. If dunking were so dangerous it would be illegal.


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I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

Ok, I’ll give you that. No one expects a player to be required to release the rim so as to land on his back. But that is decidedly not what we observed. Our dunker’s swing was never more than 10 degrees off perpendicular. There was zero risk in his landing. He just decided to hang there and make a spectacle of himself. Apparently his coach felt that somehow put his neck at risk?


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[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Ok, I’ll give you that. No one expects a player to be required to release the rim so as to land on his back. But that is decidedly not what we observed. Our dunker’s swing was never more than 10 degrees off perpendicular. There was zero risk in his landing. He just decided to hang there and make a spectacle of himself. Apparently his coach felt that somehow put his neck at risk?


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What alternative did he have? Accept that his player did something worthy of a technical? Never!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

The only reason that player's feet swung up in front of him is because he was hanging on the rim to start with.

[FormerUmp]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22138361

I don't know if he slipped or tried to come off too early. Maybe something to keep in mind if you feel you're getting too quick to whistle a T? Just throwing this out there in a related thread.

[bucky]

1. T
2. T
3. Foul - player jumps nearly over, but not quite, defender with all kinds of illegal contact to the defender's head. Then, no-call the rim-grab for safety.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

Dunn faceplants after transition slam - ESPN Video

I don't know if he slipped or tried to come off too early. Maybe something to keep in mind if you feel you're getting too quick to whistle a T? Just throwing this out there in a related thread.

This play is exactly what was on my mind as I was reading/re-reading people say that player safety was an overused excuse.

Over the years I've seen enough dangerous situations with players having certain momentum and trajectory that I'm going to err on the side of allowing them to protect themselves in those instances.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Over the years I've seen enough dangerous situations with players having certain momentum and trajectory that I'm going to err on the side of allowing them to protect themselves in those instances.

It seems to me that letting players grasp/hang on the rim is part of what caused this problem. There used to be an expectation that on a dunk the player didn't grab and pull the rim. That softened over time so that grabbing with some pull is the norm. Once players hold it, the kind of face plant becomes more likely.

While part of me (I'm not sure if its the "get off my lawn!" part or the "I could never dunk very well anyhow" part) wants to say that we could solve this better by going back in time and saying just don't grab the rim at all, the part of me that lives in the real world comes to terms with needing to be more accepting of letting them hang longer so that they land instead of face plant. (I can't get that video out of my head and never want to see one like that again.)

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

It seems to me that letting players grasp/hang on the rim is part of what caused this problem. There used to be an expectation that on a dunk the player didn't grab and pull the rim. That softened over time so that grabbing with some pull is the norm. Once players hold it, the kind of face plant becomes more likely.

While part of me (I'm not sure if its the "get off my lawn!" part or the "I could never dunk very well anyhow" part) wants to say that we could solve this better by going back in time and saying just don't grab the rim at all, the part of me that lives in the real world comes to terms with needing to be more accepting of letting them hang longer so that they land instead of face plant. (I can't get that video out of my head and never want to see one like that again.)

You make a fair point.

But I think the cat is out of the bag in terms of not allowing any grab or pull on the rim. I'm fine with things as is and am just going to continue to err on the side of letting them hang momentarily to protect themselves and issue Ts when its unwarranted and excessive.

If we want to change rules to address safety on plays attacking the basket I'd be more interested in adding a RA at the HS level. But that's a discussion for another day.