Spin move. You make the call.... (Video)

[deecee]

I don't think the rule needs adjustment. If you can't tell at full speed it's a travel then don't call it. If you can then do call it. Adding another step won't change anything. The line will just me moved further down.

If slow motion is needed to determine a travel then the call/no-call was the correct adjudication.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

One thing that has evolved is the argument here. There's less "He may not have completed the gather" and more "That's never called." So the question remains, if I correctly call a travel which you can't see without slow motion, or even worse in my opinion, you simply refuse to call because some other official didn't /wouldn't, does that make me a bad official?

Do you call that travel?

[JeffM]

Unless there have been travels on similar plays earlier in the day, I wouldn't call a travel. For me, I am not certain that it isn't going to be a spin dribble rather than a spin-catch-and-shoot until both hands are on the ball which I don't see until both feet are in the air.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Unless there have been travels on similar plays earlier in the day, I wouldn't call a travel. For me, I am not certain that it isn't going to be a spin dribble rather than a spin-catch-and-shoot until both hands are on the ball which I don't see until both feet are in the air.

As soon as you know he's not dribbling though...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... the question remains, if I correctly call a travel which you can't see without slow motion, or even worse in my opinion, you simply refuse to call because some other official didn't /wouldn't, does that make me a bad official?

... and, does it make a sound?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Do you call that travel?

He has the ball in both hands with his back to the basket. He completes the spin and the second foot obviously lands before the release. Seems pretty obvious to me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

He has the ball in both hands with his back to the basket. He completes the spin and the second foot obviously lands before the release. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Do you call that travel in your games? This video is from a high school state tournament. You keep complaining about college officials not calling it. I'm asking you do you call it because in another thread you made excuses about coaches and fans.

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[thedewed]

The issue is if the right foot is off the ground before he's cupped, gathered, controlled the ball. If you aren't absolutely sure, you don't call it. I've been told and always thought that if in real time it happens, you call it, and knowleadgeable basketball people in the stands look at each other and question whether it was a travel, you shouldn't have called it. Travels should be called when most everyone in the gym know it's a travel.

consider my other example: catching a wing pass going away from the basket, and ending up facing the basket in triple threat position. Really hard to do that w/o technically being close to a travel. yet it never, ever, is called, nor should it be called. If you catch on one step going away, then pivot around to face the basket, it's the same issue as here only worse: the foot you caught on comes back down as you turn to face the basket.

Kind of like face guarding with the hand: never, ever, called, yet it's in the rule book, or at least it used to be, as a technical.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Do you call that travel in your games? This video is from a high school state tournament. You keep complaining about college officials not calling it. I'm asking you do you call it because in another thread you made excuses about coaches and fans.

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And for the record, I probably would not have called this either seeing it live. I actually did not know it was a travel when I first saw the play. I only realized it after I clipped it up, because we have people that insist high school officials are "pure" and call these all the time as opposed to college officials that "completely ignore" this violation as stated by some who seem to not work a lick of college ball.

Peace

[LRZ]

"knowleadgeable basketball people in the stands look at each other and question whether it was a travel, you shouldn't have called it....Travels should be called when most everyone in the gym know it's a travel."

Frankly, I don't find this helpful. I see something in real time and must make an immediate decision: I either pass (I'm sure it was not a travel) or call it (I'm sure it was). Maybe the fans in the stands were wrong. And we don't--and can't--officiate by taking a vote of spectators. Even on this forum, knowledgeable people often disagree, even with the benefit of slo-mo and replay.

Or maybe I'm missing your point.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by thedewed

...knowleadgeable basketball people in the stands ...

By "knowledgeable basketball people", I assume you mean other basketball officials.

[thedewed]

Originally Posted by LRZ

"knowleadgeable basketball people in the stands look at each other and question whether it was a travel, you shouldn't have called it....Travels should be called when most everyone in the gym know it's a travel."

Frankly, I don't find this helpful. I see something in real time and must make an immediate decision: I either pass (I'm sure it was not a travel) or call it (I'm sure it was). Maybe the fans in the stands were wrong. And we don't--and can't--officiate by taking a vote of spectators. Even on this forum, knowledgeable people often disagree, even with the benefit of slo-mo and replay.

Or maybe I'm missing your point.

The point is simply, if you are not sure it is a travel when you see it in real-time, if it's gray area, you don't blow your whistle.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Do you call that travel in your games? This video is from a high school state tournament. You keep complaining about college officials not calling it. I'm asking you do you call it because in another thread you made excuses about coaches and fans.

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Yes, I do, always have. But I'm weakening in the name of consistency. It's not fair to the player to call a violation on something when he really and truly "has been doing that all year and nobody else has called it." You're gonna have to refresh my memory about the excuses, coaches, and fans part.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by thedewed

The point is simply, if you are not sure it is a travel when you see it in real-time, if it's gray area, you don't blow your whistle.

OK, but then why do you refer to people in the stand as a gauge?

[JetMetFan]

If I'm the L I doubt I get it because I'm not going to able to see when the BH/D ends his dribble. Maybe if I'm the T but as the L one of the defenders would most likely be blocking me out.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And for the record, I probably would not have called this either seeing it live. I actually did not know it was a travel when I first saw the play. I only realized it after I clipped it up, because we have people that insist high school officials are "pure" and call these all the time as opposed to college officials that "completely ignore" this violation as stated by some who seem to not work a lick of college ball.

It's funny, Jeff. My supervisors/observers/fellow officials at the NCAA level run the gamut on this issue, from call the really obvious ones to analyzing every move step by step. The one thing that's a constant is people say if I'm the best official at calling traveling I won't go too far. I remember an NCAAW preseason meeting video from within the past decade where the clinician flat out said to let stuff go on some of the spin moves, especially in the post. Now we've moved back to "call the rules as written." I just do my best to roll with it.