Elbow scenario

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I would have a violation for excessively swinging elbows in both scenarios as this clearly fits the description of the violation.

No way!!!!!!

Why create your own problems. A teammate hit another teammate. Let their coach deal with it. We have other things to worry about out there.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

At minimum, I would call an excessive elbow swinging violation.

Depending upon how I view the act, I might call a technical foul for unsporting behavior, which could even be flagrant.

Consider if the player had thrown a punch at her teammate. That conduct is unacceptable.

That's not what happened. She threw an elbow (and none of us where there to see the severity).

I'm letting the coach handle it as it was between teammates. I'm not getting involved in that.

[Adam]

I'm with Camron. If you think she's intentionally trying to strike an opponent in the head with her elbow, get her off the court. If you don't, she's going to hurt someone.

If you think it wasn't intentional, but just dangerous, a violation may be in order. The OP was clear, however, that he thought it was intentional and aimed at an opponent. I'm not risking my game by letting her play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

That's not what happened. She threw an elbow (and none of us where there to see the severity).

I'm letting the coach handle it as it was between teammates. I'm not getting involved in that.

It was only between teammates on accident. The OP said it was obvious she was aiming for an unseen opponent. That's enough for me.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm with Camron. If you think she's intentionally trying to strike an opponent in the head with her elbow, get her off the court. If you don't, she's going to hurt someone.

If you think it wasn't intentional, but just dangerous, a violation may be in order. The OP was clear, however, that he thought it was intentional and aimed at an opponent. I'm not risking my game by letting her play.

I understand what you guys are saying. I just feel like this is digging a little too deep into the rule book for something that accidentally happened amongst teammates. Now the word accidentally might not be the right choice, but I wasn't there to see it.

If you guys want to call the violations/fouls listed above, I couldn't argue against it.

[Amesman]

Assigner Game Day +1: Got a call about a violent elbow to an opponent's head yesterday and there might even be a concussion ...

Official: Yep, we tossed her for a flagrant.

Assigner: Any hint this might be coming?

Official: Well, she tried to do it earlier but just whiffed on a teammate.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

I understand what you guys are saying. I just feel like this is digging a little too deep into the rule book for something that accidentally happened amongst teammates. Now the word accidentally might not be the right choice, but I wasn't there to see it.

If you guys want to call the violations/fouls listed above, I couldn't argue against it.

It's not really that hard to dig through the book for this and it's been POE'd and rule changed ad nauseum over the last decade or more.

At the very least here, there should be a quick warning to the player and coach about this.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

It's not really that hard to dig through the book for this and it's been POE'd and rule changed ad nauseum over the last decade or more.

At the very least here, there should be a quick warning to the player and coach about this.

That's the route I would take. I shouldn't have said "digging to deep into the playbook" as it is indeed easy to find.

I should have said I think this is taking the rules too literally and getting something that isn't there. Yes, it sounds like it was a vicious elbow. I'm not going to do anything other than talk to the coach and let them know that next time that player will most likely be out of the game. The contact was on a teammate. The coach will be told that if the same contact is on the opposing team we will more than likely have a disqualification. I would think that should take care of it. I know it would were I'm at. Maybe that wouldn't work with the kids you guys officiate?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Assigner Game Day +1: Got a call about a violent elbow to an opponent's head yesterday and there might even be a concussion ...

Official: Yep, we tossed her for a flagrant.

Assigner: Any hint this might be coming?

Official: Well, she tried to do it earlier but just whiffed on a teammate.

Yep.

Additionally, after I get her sub in and while we're shooting FTs, I'm going to do a mental check to see if there's something we missed that might have led to it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

No way!!!!!!

Why create your own problems. A teammate hit another teammate. Let their coach deal with it. We have other things to worry about out there.

The ONLY thing officials should worry about in a high school game is protecting the safety of the players. If you think that "we have other things to worry about", then you are missing the fundamental aspect of officiating.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

We have other things to worry about out there.

I didn't catch this until Nevadaref responded.

At that time, in that moment, you have nothing more important to worry about, IMO. If you want to let her continue to play, that's one thing, but I can't think of anything that could be happening on the court that would be more important for me to control.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by biggravy

Late in the game, A1 up big and shooting a 1 and 1. Shot misses. No one from A attempts a rebound. B1 has the rebound but B2 also grabs the rebound from behind B1. B1 with an angry look on her face unleashes an elbow toward the head of B2 obviously thinking this is an opposing player. There is no opponent within 10 feet. In a) the elbow contacts her teammate in the head or b) there is no contact.

Your call is...

In a) I have a player going to the bench for the remainder of the game as the result of a Flagrant Foul. The act is the issue, not which player she hit with the elbow.

In b) I have a violation for excessive swinging of the elbows.

This topic was brought up at our association meeting and it was made very clear. Excessive swinging with contact to a player (including a teammate = ejection). Excessive swinging without contact the violation gets called.

Not only was this the direction from the association leadership (and the independent assigner present in the meeting), but also the request of the 10 varsity coaches in the room as well.

The ultimate issue in this is safety. Just because the contact was against a teammate doesn't make it less dangerous. An elbow to the head is still and elbow to the head.

The only way I don't have anything is if it was somehow accidental (which I have seen between teammates before).