In the act of shooting?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

That's why we made the mediocre bucks.... to make judgement calls like this.

Simple rule of thumb... if in doubt, they're shooting.

As you get more experience, you'll be able to be more patient and watch the play develop. It just takes some time.

As for the coach, a quick conversation after you report the foul might be enough: "coach, in my judgement he was attempting a shot when he was fouled"... the bolded part is key.

Also, never have a conversation with a coach before you report the foul, lest you forget the number of the fouling player. I learned this lesson the hard way.

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

I think they're meaningless words.

"In my judgment, he was shooting."

"He was shooting."

Either way, the coach will argue with you if he feels like it.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think they're meaningless words.

"In my judgment, he was shooting."

"He was shooting."

Either way, the coach will argue with you if he feels like it.

That's sort of what I meant, but you said it better.

[bob jenkins]

Although it's wordy, I sometimes say, "I understand what it might have looked like from your side, but from my side ...."

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

Thanks, Smitty. Your response is the point I expected would be made. As I noted, one's judgement is always under scrutiny. It's not necessary to qualify everything, or anything one says to a coach - the stripes and whistle already set the basis of our authority.
And, as in other relationships, what I don't say and when I don't say it, is often more important than anything I may add to the conversation. . .
Many times, for me, knowing that the coach is testing our relationship, a simple smile and, "Thanks, coach." is all the response I give.

[jTheUmp]

If I get a coach who responds with "your judgement stinks!" (or worse, as you say), he's either getting warned or whacked, depending on what's transpired earlier in the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

If I get a coach who responds with "your judgement stinks!" (or worse, as you say), he's either getting warned or whacked, depending on what's transpired earlier in the game.

That coach will get a "then why are you asking me about the call?" from me.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

Oh dear.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Dad

My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened.

Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

[zm1283]

"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by zm1283

"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

OK, thanks. Being my 1st season, never called a T, maybe that could have been my first, or at least a warning (would have been my first warning, too)

[pizanno]

"...and we'll call it the same on your side."

Helps move focus on to the next play.