In the act of shooting?

[ChuckS]

Rookie here still learning the nuances. Boys JV, I was L, had a clear view of a drive coming right at me. A1 goes up for the shot, B1 clearly displaces him. I call the foul, and as I am reporting, HC starts screaming "How can it be 2 shots, he PASSED the ball!!" Yelled it a few times, even as we are starting to administer the FTs.

I admit I did not see the pass, I need to work on my tunnelvision. But only a few minutes later, I realized that what A1 did could be considered a try, since the pass occurred after he was fouled during what I considered the act of shooting.

All opinions welcome!

[BryanV21]

You simply have to determine if the player was trying to shoot or not.

It's tough, especially for some (me included), but you have to be patient and let the play develop.

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[bob jenkins]

There's a specific case or interp to the effect that "if he was shooting when the foul occurred, it doesn't matter if he passed the ball after that. It's still a shooting foul."

[jTheUmp]

That's why we made the mediocre bucks.... to make judgement calls like this.

Simple rule of thumb... if in doubt, they're shooting.

As you get more experience, you'll be able to be more patient and watch the play develop. It just takes some time.

As for the coach, a quick conversation after you report the foul might be enough: "coach, in my judgement he was attempting a shot when he was fouled"... the bolded part is key.

Also, never have a conversation with a coach before you report the foul, lest you forget the number of the fouling player. I learned this lesson the hard way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Rookie here still learning the nuances. Boys JV, I was L, had a clear view of a drive coming right at me. A1 goes up for the shot, B1 clearly displaces him. I call the foul, and as I am reporting, HC starts screaming "How can it be 2 shots, he PASSED the ball!!" Yelled it a few times, even as we are starting to administer the FTs.

I admit I did not see the pass, I need to work on my tunnelvision. But only a few minutes later, I realized that what A1 did could be considered a try, since the pass occurred after he was fouled during what I considered the act of shooting.

All opinions welcome!

It's your judgment. I may not have ruled the same as you, but I wouldn't tell you that you are wrong based on your judgment.

And I would always prefer for newer officials to err on the side of shooting rather than not shooting.

[ChuckS]

That's pretty much what happened. He went up for the shot, got fouled, then passed when he realized he was no longer in a good position to shoot.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

That's why we made the mediocre bucks.... to make judgement calls like this.

Simple rule of thumb... if in doubt, they're shooting.

As you get more experience, you'll be able to be more patient and watch the play develop. It just takes some time.

As for the coach, a quick conversation after you report the foul might be enough: "coach, in my judgement he was attempting a shot when he was fouled"... the bolded part is key.

Also, never have a conversation with a coach before you report the foul, lest you forget the number of the fouling player. I learned this lesson the hard way.

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

[jTheUmp]

If I get a coach who responds with "your judgement stinks!" (or worse, as you say), he's either getting warned or whacked, depending on what's transpired earlier in the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

I think they're meaningless words.

"In my judgment, he was shooting."

"He was shooting."

Either way, the coach will argue with you if he feels like it.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think they're meaningless words.

"In my judgment, he was shooting."

"He was shooting."

Either way, the coach will argue with you if he feels like it.

That's sort of what I meant, but you said it better.

[bob jenkins]

Although it's wordy, I sometimes say, "I understand what it might have looked like from your side, but from my side ...."

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Talk about splitting hairs. They can just as easily say "You were out of position!". Nothing wrong with saying "in my judgment". They won't like your answer regardless of how you phrase it.

Thanks, Smitty. Your response is the point I expected would be made. As I noted, one's judgement is always under scrutiny. It's not necessary to qualify everything, or anything one says to a coach - the stripes and whistle already set the basis of our authority.
And, as in other relationships, what I don't say and when I don't say it, is often more important than anything I may add to the conversation. . .
Many times, for me, knowing that the coach is testing our relationship, a simple smile and, "Thanks, coach." is all the response I give.

[BryanV21]

Isn't it assumed that if you say it was during a shot attempt that it's your judgment?

The less words the better. Say too much and you may say the wrong thing.

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[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

That's pretty much what happened. He went up for the shot, got fouled, then passed when he realized he was no longer in a good position to shoot.

Good job.