In the act of shooting?

[cmhjordan23]

I was doing a scrimmage last night. Situation was offensive player driving the lane for layup. He takes one step, then contact, second step, basket goes in. Is this a shooting foul? The coach and I agreed to disagree.

[cmhjordan23]

Foul was on the defensive player.

[mbyron]

It's a shooting foul if the player was shooting. When does a try begin? Hint: 4-41.

[Scrapper1]

Did the second step involve returning the pivot foot to the floor? If so, that might make a difference in whether you score the basket.

[Adam]

Looks like a shooting foul to me, although scrapper's point about the pivot foot is a good one. I'm guessing the first step was actually putting the pivot foot down, so the 2nd step was the non-pivot foot (a typical layup.)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

What we are really discussing in this thread is Continuous Motion.

Four (4) seperate rules have to be applied when A1 is dribbling toward Team A's basket or A1 catches a pass while running toward Team A's basket. Those rules (I will give the NFHS rules but they apply equally to NCAA and FIBA rules as well) are:

R4-S11: Continuous Motion

R4-S15: Dribble

R4-S41: Shooting, Try, Tap

R4-S44, Traveling


The first key to determining whether a A1 has been fouled in the act of shooting or one if his teammates has been fouled while he was in the act of shooting is to see the entire play. One does not necessarily need a patient whistle but still needs to watch the entire play.

The second key is to remember that if A1 is dribbling the ball, that means he must stop his dribble before he can release the ball for a Try. And that means that A1's act of ending his dribble can be the start of his Act of Shooting/Try (remember, to watch the entire play).

The third key is to remember that, and to quote R4-S11-A2: "If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight."

MTD, Sr.

[bainsey]

Let's say that second step was a pivot foot, and would have been a travel had it not been for the foul. (In other words, the foul caused the travel.)

If you call the foul, allow continuous motion, and the pivot foot comes back down, then the ball is released, does the shot count if it goes in? In other words, does the foul-induced-travel negate the try?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Let's say that second step was a pivot foot, and would have been a travel had it not been for the foul. (In other words, the foul caused the travel.)

If you call the foul, allow continuous motion, and the pivot foot comes back down, then the ball is released, does the shot count if it goes in? In other words, does the foul-induced-travel negate the try?

Would you count any basket after the shooter traveled?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If you call the foul, allow continuous motion, and the pivot foot comes back down, then the ball is released, does the shot count if it goes in? In other words, does the foul-induced-travel negate the try?

No. Yes.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Let's say that second step was a pivot foot, and would have been a travel had it not been for the foul.

If it would have been a travel if not for the foul, it is still a travel.

[constable]

Rarely called but it is the correct ruling. Cancel the bucket on the travel. I've only seen it called once where the bucket was killed and a1 awarded two throws.

[Freddy]

This sit is very similar to a recent state association test question. Something like, "A1, having begun his/her habitual shooting motion, is fouled by B2; the contact by B2 causes A1 to take an extra step (presumably amounting to a travelling violation), after which he continues his shot, which goes in."
As per previously mentioned rule- and casebook citations, the answer was correct that the basket is cancelled, the foul counts, and A1 goes to the line for two shots.
This seems to be in accord with what was stated above.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by constable

Cancel the bucket on the travel.

That's not quite the ruling. Since he traveled, it could not have been his habitual motion to begin a try, and thus not a try.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's not quite the ruling. Since he traveled, it could not have been his habitual motion to begin a try, and thus not a try.

So you're going to call the foul and award the ball at a designated spot?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's not quite the ruling. Since he traveled, it could not have been his habitual motion to begin a try, and thus not a try.

Disagree. Whether he was fouled in the act of shooting doesn't matter how or whether he finishes the motion. If he travels, afterward, it's just a two-shot foul regardless of whether the shot goes in.

The key rule here is that an offensive violation causes the ball to become dead.