In the act of shooting?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

Oh dear.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Dad

My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened.

Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

[zm1283]

"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by zm1283

"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

OK, thanks. Being my 1st season, never called a T, maybe that could have been my first, or at least a warning (would have been my first warning, too)

[pizanno]

"...and we'll call it the same on your side."

Helps move focus on to the next play.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

[so cal lurker]

The referee has an opinion (judgment) and the coach has an opinion. Unfortunately for the coach, only the referee's judgment matters. In my mind, that is why the formulation "in my judgment" or Bob's lengthier one are valuable -- they contain a reminder that it is a matter of the referee's judgment. Anything we can do as officials to de-escalate tension, in my mind, is a good thing -- we don't need the coach to agree that we "won" the dispute, we need to get the game moving and people doing what we want them to do. (Anyone who finds the coach-referee dynamic a struggle might consider reading Verbal Judo, the Gentle Art of Persuasion, it is written by a former cop and has some interesting strategies on de-escalation and defining what one is trying to achieve in an interaction.)

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Dad

My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

Oh, please. Your calls are exactly what you see and interpret using your judgment. And they are, for the purposes of the game, the facts. But pretending that you always accurately perceive what happened is naive and arrogant. You've been around long enough to know that sometimes an angle or blocked view or distraction will make you see something wrong.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Dad

My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

Mark it. The day stand-up comedy was replaced by internet sit-down material.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Oh, please. Your calls are exactly what you see and interpret using your judgment. And they are, for the purposes of the game, the facts. But pretending that you always accurately perceive what happened is naive and arrogant. You've been around long enough to know that sometimes an angle or blocked view or distraction will make you see something wrong.

I agree with just about all of this. This is my view of most officials so I wouldn't call it arrogant. My margin for error on calls is very small and I usually know when it happens before I see the tape. My point, is when officials blow their whistle, statistically, they are almost always correct. I don't think a margin of error under 5% night in and night out should be called an opinion, especially to a coach. Judgement? Sure. I've never had a call where I was 100% sure, a coach said blah blah blah I'm sending the video, and I ended up being wrong. I'm wrong... all the time, but like most officials, it's rare. Usually when I'm wrong with a coach I will blatantly tell him what I saw and that I didn't get a complete picture of the play.

When I blow my whistle I'm almost always going to be right, just like almost every other official. If the coach wants to start pretending my calls are opinions and therefore all subject to debate, my ears may start tuning them out.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

Pretty sure his tongue is somewhere in his cheek.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by adam

pretty sure his tongue is somewhere in his cheek.

Was fun while it lasted.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

Was fun while it lasted.

Someone had to tell 'em.