The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 734
Couple of scenarios

(1) A1 shooting jump shot, which goes in. L whistles and signals a shooting foul; T whistles second calls the shooter for kicking out while shooting and waves off the basket? Is the proper resolution of this the same as a blarge (basket counts, B's ball) or something else.

(2) Battle in the post. Ref calls double foul on A1 and B1. POI, right? Does the shot clock reset?

[Edit: NFHS question]

Last edited by so cal lurker; Thu Feb 04, 2016 at 11:39am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
(1) A1 shooting jump shot, which goes in. L whistles and signals a shooting foul; T whistles second calls the shooter for kicking out while shooting and waves off the basket? Is the proper resolution of this the same as a blarge (basket counts, B's ball) or something else.

(2) Battle in the post. Ref calls double foul on A1 and B1. POI, right? Does the shot clock reset?
1. Shooter was fouled in act of shooting. He, a player in control or an airborne shooter, then fouls a defender. The basket cannot count because of the second foul being player control. Shooter will get 2 throws with no players on the lane. Defense gets ball out of bounds after FTs. If last FT good, defense gets to run end line. 4.19.9A

2. In NCAAM if the arrow favors the offense the clock is not reset. If one of the fouls was flagrant it would be reset.

Last edited by BigCat; Thu Feb 04, 2016 at 11:49am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:48am
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
1. Shooter was fouled in act of shooting. He, a player in control or an airborne shooter, then fouls a defender. The basket cannot count because of the second foul being player control. Shooter will get 2 throws with no players on the lane. Defense gets ball out of bounds after FTs. If last FT good, defense gets to run end line. 4.19.9A
Not correct for NHFS. Report both, team B gets a throw in on end line. Case Book 4.19.8 C
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Not correct for NHFS. Report both, team B gets a throw in on end line. Case Book 4.19.8 C
I would agree here. The caseplay BigCat mentioned had to do with a foul during the shot then AFTER when the player was returning to the floor. This description sounds like they happened at the same time (in the act of shooting).
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
1. Shooter was fouled in act of shooting. He, a player in control or an airborne shooter, then fouls a defender. The basket cannot count because of the second foul being player control. Shooter will get 2 throws with no players on the lane. Defense gets ball out of bounds after FTs. If last FT good, defense gets to run end line. 4.19.9A
A player control foul is a common foul. If this is a double foul, it is not common and therefore cannot be player control. Assuming the ball was in flight when the contact occurred, it's good if it goes and Team B gets the ball. If not, go to arrow.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Not correct for NHFS. Report both, team B gets a throw in on end line. Case Book 4.19.8 C
Not correct for NFHS. 4.19.9 is the relevant play. In the OP the officials are not making opposite calls on the very same action. There IS a shooting foul by defense and then a PC by offense. This is not a blarge. It is a False Double.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
A player control foul is a common foul. If this is a double foul, it is not common and therefore cannot be player control. Assuming the ball was in flight when the contact occurred, it's good if it goes and Team B gets the ball. If not, go to arrow.
You are incorrect. BigCat even cited the case play, I just disagree that it's a false double.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 11:58am
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
You are incorrect. BigCat even cited the case play, I just disagree that it's a false double.

+1. I agree, I don't think its a false double either.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 12:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
You are incorrect. BigCat even cited the case play, I just disagree that it's a false double.
What do you think the correct ruling is? I think I may be wrong but why not a false double?

And if you rule a foul by the offense as part of a double foul, it's not a player control foul. Player control fouls are common fouls. Any fouls that's part of a double foul is not a common foul. 4.19.8.C

So, if you're waving off the basket citing a player control foul, this has to be a false double.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 12:10pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Not correct for NFHS. 4.19.9 is the relevant play. In the OP the officials are not making opposite calls on the very same action. There IS a shooting foul by defense and then a PC by offense. This is not a blarge. It is a False Double.
Two players fouled each other at approximately the same time. Isn't that the definition of a double foul?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 12:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
+1. I agree, I don't think its a false double either.
I read the OP as the offensive player being fouled and THEN kicking leg out and fouling defense. Similar to 4.19.9. Can it be called a double? sure. "approximately same time etc." If the kick was bad enough to call it could probably even be intentional. I'd have to see it.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 12:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
A player control foul is a common foul. If this is a double foul, it is not common and therefore cannot be player control. Assuming the ball was in flight when the contact occurred, it's good if it goes and Team B gets the ball. If not, go to arrow.
If you call it a double foul then what you have above is correct.

Last edited by BigCat; Thu Feb 04, 2016 at 12:40pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 01:26pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
We need a better description of the play, to include the status of the ball and the timing of the 2 fouls.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 01:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
We need a better description of the play, to include the status of the ball and the timing of the 2 fouls.
I posted what was described to me about a call that irritates people a year later. In the actual game, apparently, the T "won" -- the basket was cancelled and only the PF was charged.

anyone care to answer (2) from the OP re NFHS rules? (In a game last night, it was POI with the shot clock was reset -- I thought the shot clock should not reset. Though as I write this, I remember that pure NFHS doesn't have a shot clock -- this was in California, which does.)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 04, 2016, 01:49pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
I posted what was described to me about a call that irritates people a year later. In the actual game, apparently, the T "won" -- the basket was cancelled and only the PF was charged.

anyone care to answer (2) from the OP re NFHS rules? (In a game last night, it was POI with the shot clock was reset -- I thought the shot clock should not reset. Though as I write this, I remember that pure NFHS doesn't have a shot clock -- this was in California, which does.)
There are no NFHS rules for the shot clock, states with the shot clock each have there own rules. What one state does may be different than another state.

In NCAA the shot clock does not reset.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two Scenarios TheWahls7 Softball 9 Fri May 21, 2010 02:17pm
R1 stays at first ... two scenarios bobbrix Softball 8 Mon May 15, 2006 01:51pm
Two scenarios jking_94577 Basketball 8 Sat Mar 12, 2005 07:51am
more FT Scenarios? Troward Basketball 3 Tue Nov 05, 2002 07:18pm
Two scenarios Danvrapp Basketball 41 Tue Aug 07, 2001 08:53pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1