Block/charge and line

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

Interesting list of statuses. It helps me see your argument, even if I disagree.

You're saying a player who puts his foot on the line is off the court, but authorized?

Can I assume we agree he's off the court?

If we aren't going to call a violation for stepping on the line (without player control, obviously), we must see that as authorized leaving of the court. Authorized leaving of the court is generally interpreted as stepping out of bounds in the normal play of the game without seeking unfair advantage.

I'm not sure how else you could classify him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Can I assume we agree he's off the court?

If we aren't going to call a violation for stepping on the line (without player control, obviously), we must see that as authorized leaving of the court. Authorized leaving of the court is generally interpreted as stepping out of bounds in the normal play of the game without seeking unfair advantage.

I'm not sure how else you could classify him.

I classify him as still on the playing court.

If a player has stepped on the line in an attempt to go around a screen, do you consider that a violation?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I classify him as still on the playing court.

If a player has stepped on the line in an attempt to go around a screen, do you consider that a violation?

Yes. Isn't there specifically a case on that?

In practice, that's a low order violation and we're looking either at a different match up or the screener's body position and aren't going to always see it unless they go well OOB. And, like 3 seconds, I try to warn a team if there's no immediate advantage. IME, it doesn't happen two often because offenses don't run their cutters that close to the end line.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Yes. Isn't there specifically a case on that?

In practice, that's a low order violation and we're looking either at a different match up or the screener's body position and aren't going to always see it unless they go well OOB. And, like 3 seconds, I try to warn a team if there's no immediate advantage. IME, it doesn't happen two often because offenses don't run their cutters that close to the end line.

I'm not aware of any case play that says stepping on the line qualifies here.

This is the crux of our disagreement, then.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm not aware of any case play that says stepping on the line qualifies here.

This is the crux of our disagreement, then.

Well, you can't go OOB to avoid a screen. There's a practical argument to be made to ignore just stepping on the line. Somewhere between completely on the court and running behind the lead, you have to call it.

I submit that point is the same point where a player has lost his right to his spot as he's no longer on the court.

A case would be nice.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Well, you can't go OOB to avoid a screen. There's a practical argument to be made to ignore just stepping on the line. Somewhere between completely on the court and running behind the lead, you have to call it.

I submit that point is the same point where a player has lost his right to his spot as he's no longer on the court.

A case would be nice.

That's not quite what the rule says. It says you can't leave the playing court.

It says you can't be OOB and have LGP.

It says you are entitled to your position on the "playing court."

I see a distinct difference, since they use different phrasing, between leaving the playing court and being OOB.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

That's not quite what the rule says. It says you can't leave the playing court.

It says you can't be OOB and have LGP.

It says you are entitled to your position on the "playing court."

I see a distinct difference, since they use different phrasing, between leaving the playing court and being OOB.

I think this is a really good point. If we assume that OOB and off the playing court are distinct, what is the difference? Perhaps off the playing court is not having anything touching the court, but I don't know of any official definition of it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Can I assume we agree he's off the court?

If we aren't going to call a violation for stepping on the line (without player control, obviously), we must see that as authorized leaving of the court. Authorized leaving of the court is generally interpreted as stepping out of bounds in the normal play of the game without seeking unfair advantage.

I'm not sure how else you could classify him.

My thought is that if the player is camped out at the spot, I would go with the violation well before any contact happens. If he gets there just in time to try to get a PC call, I'm going block.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

My thought is that if the player is camped out at the spot, I would go with the violation well before any contact happens. If he gets there just in time to try to get a PC call, I'm going block.

In that case, he's likely moving and a block is the right call anyway. Let me ask you, though, "If a player has stepped on the line in an attempt to go around a screen, do you consider that a violation?"

[SNIPERBBB]

Probably wouldn't see it. But by rule it would be a violation.