When to call the Technical

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Did you charge this T to the player? Because ...

... he's not a player, he's bench personnel. He was disqualified with five fouls.

[JetMetFan]

To add to the other comments: Before handing out the technical did you know whether the HC told the player to go to the locker room or whether the player asked and was given permission by his HC?

Sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

[Camron Rust]

Leaving that one alone short of an overt show of unsportsmanlike behavior.

Not a tech unless done in an unsporting manner. Just like I'm not gonna call a tech for a kid changing his jersey in the bench area due to blood. Not the purpose of the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not a tech unless done in an unsporting manner.

AremRed: I fully agree with you in practice, but in theory, be careful to differentiate between a player technical foul for unsporting and a head coach technical foul for unauthorized leaving the bench area. These two rules are not 100% interchangeable. Note the slightly different wording for the reasons to charge a technical foul, and remember a player is one of five, most others are bench personnel (head coach responsible), certainly a team member who has been disqualified with five fouls.

10-5-5: The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.

10-3-6-I: A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.

The rule below might be useful in regard to unsporting behavior as described in the original post (if a technical foul is to be charged, a separate question):

10-4-1: Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: e. Objecting to an official’s decision by rising from the bench or using gestures; f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not a tech unless done in an unsporting manner. Just like I'm not gonna call a tech for a kid changing his jersey in the bench area due to blood. Not the purpose of the rule.

Where does it say what the purpose for the rule is?

Originally Posted by Dad

Where does it say what the purpose for the rule is?

Nowhere as far as I know, which is unfortunate.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not a tech unless done in an unsporting manner. Just like I'm not gonna call a tech for a kid changing his jersey in the bench area due to blood. Not the purpose of the rule.

Actually, the intent of the rule is to assess a "T" even in that situation. You have to go all the way back to when the NFHS issued it's interps regarding the rule ... 2005 season.

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Actually, the intent of the rule is to assess a "T" even in that situation. You have to go all the way back to when the NFHS issued it's interps regarding the rule ... 2005 season.

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

Cool! Unfortunately I don't think that interp is present in the current rules book. As some might know I am hesitant to apply rules based on interpretations from many years ago (eg. the technical foul for teams running around the opposing players warming up).

If I can't open my current rule book and point to it, why should I be applying it?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Cool! Unfortunately I don't think that interp is present in the current rules book. As some might know I am hesitant to apply rules based on interpretations from many years ago (eg. the technical foul for teams running around the opposing players warming up).

If I can't open my current rule book and point to it, why should I be applying it?

Because the rule is quite clear without the interpretation. It's one thing when the rule is ambiguous, or even says the opposite of the existing interpretations, but this isn't one of those cases.

[Adam]

I'm not touching this one. If the coach sends his player to the locker room.

1. I'm considering that authorized.
2. I'm assuming there's someone there to watch him.

This is not something we should be involved with, IMO, unless the kid is disrupting play or making unsporting comments or gestures.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A technical foul for going to the men's room? That's rather harsh, don't you think?

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Did you charge this T to the player? Because then not only do I strongly disagree with giving a T at all in this instance, but you misapplied the rule as well.

NFHS 10-5-5: “The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.”

This is the only rule reference that justifies a T here, and if you're going to go there, you have to charge it to the head coach. Or you can just not go there at all...going to the locker room is an authorized reason to leave the bench.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... he's not a player, he's bench personnel. He was disqualified with five fouls.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

To add to the other comments: Before handing out the technical did you know whether the HC told the player to go to the locker room or whether the player asked and was given permission by his HC?

Sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Leaving that one alone short of an overt show of unsportsmanlike behavior.

I agree. While disqualified players are to remain on the bench so as to be under the supervision of their coach, there may be a valid reason for the player leaving. A case in point: The OhioHSAA allows players to play five quarters per day, i.e., in a FR/JV/VAR tripleheader a player may play one QT in the FR game, one quarter in the JV game, and then still be eligible to play in three QTs in the VAR game. Therefore, a player who has fouled out in the 4th QT of the JV after playing three QTs still has two QTs of eligibility for the VAR game and the JV HC is sending that player to the locker room to be with the VAR players and VAR HC.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Billy: Last year Mark, Jr., and I had a girls' JV game the ended up going three () OTs (don't tell Padgett). At my age I always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) use the rest room for a #1 just before we leave the locker room before the game. I then use the rest room again at HT. For this particular game I did not avail myself of the rest room at HT. During a TO with literally seconds left to go in the 2nd OT, I tell Junior that if this game goes to a 3rd OT, there will be a delay to the start of the 3rd OT. Sure enough, V1 scores a layup at the buzzer to tie the game. When I got back on the court, Mark told me that both teams were going to shoot 2 FTs because he had charged me with a delay of game TF, .

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... he's not a player, he's bench personnel. He was disqualified with five fouls.

Yes, correct.

[justsumguy3]

This is just me...I wait until B has finished their possession and A is in team control. Then I stop the game and make the head coach aware that he has a player that has left the bench and ask if he is aware. Second, I'd ask if an assistant has accompanied him.

If he's alone, I'd say something akin to 'for his safety, we need him back out here. I'm sure you understand.'

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by justsumguy3

This is just me...I wait until B has finished their possession and A is in team control. Then I stop the game and make the head coach aware that he has a player that has left the bench and ask if he is aware. Second, I'd ask if an assistant has accompanied him.

If he's alone, I'd say something akin to 'for his safety, we need him back out here. I'm sure you understand.'

If I were the coach, id look at you like you were from Mars and say…"Safety? He's 17 years old…." If you are going to do something i'd say get him back out here...the rule requires he stay.

Now, if he is just heading to the locker room (not acting like an idiot) I'm not getting involved, at all. I don't care if he asked his coach for permission or not.