Just a rough night...

[zm1283]

On another note I am amazed at how much crap football officials put up with. (At least in my experience) It's almost like football puts up with the most, followed by basketball, then baseball. If baseball coaches acted like some basketball coaches I know, they would be dumped in the first two innings a lot of games.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

On another note I am amazed at how much crap football officials put up with. (At least in my experience) It's almost like football puts up with the most, followed by basketball, then baseball. If baseball coaches acted like some basketball coaches I know, they would be dumped in the first two innings a lot of games.

I work both baseball and basketball, and I think it's the other way around (because we don't have the equivalent of a T in baseball).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Based on my experience in football, we worry more about things that question our integrity. To me, "You're crazy" is just another way of saying he disagrees with my judgement. That will happen on a block/charge where he is biased and the official understands the rule. If he says "learn the rule" or "you're screwing us" then he's cruising the line to integrity. There is still a little difference in football because nobody in the stands is likely aware he said anything, but basketball is more visible. I definitely understand that.

Personal, profane, prolonged, public.

"You're" makes it personal. "That's crazy" gets ignored. "You're crazy" get penalized.

[jTheUmp]

We put up with a lot more in football because we're outside rather than an echo-filled gym. And for every official on the field, at least one coach is 25-50 yards away at minimum.

Working as an Umpire, I almost never hear anything a coach says from the sideline.


Back to basketball.
Last week, visiting team keeps it close for 3/4 of the game, but it slips away from them late... down 10ish with about 2 minutes to go, visiting coach says to me "You know, I bet when I look at this film, you'll have called about 80% of the fouls... your partners aren't calling anything". It was only loud enough for me to hear as I was standing right next to her during a FT. Prior to this point, she hadn't complained about anything as far as I can remember.

Warn, Whack, Acknowledge, or Ignore?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

We put up with a lot more in football because we're outside rather than an echo-filled gym. And for every official on the field, at least one coach is 25-50 yards away at minimum.

Working as an Umpire, I almost never hear anything a coach says from the sideline.


Back to basketball.
Last week, visiting team keeps it close for 3/4 of the game, but it slips away from them late... down 10ish with about 2 minutes to go, visiting coach says to me "You know, I bet when I look at this film, you'll have called about 80% of the fouls... your partners aren't calling anything". It was only loud enough for me to hear as I was standing right next to her during a FT. Prior to this point, she hadn't complained about anything as far as I can remember.

Warn, Whack, Acknowledge, or Ignore?

Move away and quit standing so close to her in the future.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Move away and quit standing so close to her in the future.

Yup.

Standing next to coaches is a magnet for goofy comments.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

We put up with a lot more in football because we're outside rather than an echo-filled gym. And for every official on the field, at least one coach is 25-50 yards away at minimum.

Working as an Umpire, I almost never hear anything a coach says from the sideline.


Back to basketball.
Last week, visiting team keeps it close for 3/4 of the game, but it slips away from them late... down 10ish with about 2 minutes to go, visiting coach says to me "You know, I bet when I look at this film, you'll have called about 80% of the fouls... your partners aren't calling anything". It was only loud enough for me to hear as I was standing right next to her during a FT. Prior to this point, she hadn't complained about anything as far as I can remember.

Warn, Whack, Acknowledge, or Ignore?

Move away and ignore this coach for the rest of game unless she needs to be dealt with a T.

This year I had one coach ask me why I wasn't addressing him and I responded with, "Anytime I try you either don't listen or want to bark. So if it comes to the point where I HAVE to address you it will be with a T because I don't think anything I have tried has gotten through to you and it might just take a T."

I walked away and he didn't say squat to me the rest of the game. I have adopted a 100% honesty approach this year and it's worked fine for the most part. Some coaches just don't want to discuss and they don't get my courtesy of talking with them unless it's official business. I'm through with the "expectation" that the coach-official relationship be solely on the officials shoulder. A coach can act the part or not, I don't care anymore.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

... down 10ish with about 2 minutes to go, visiting coach says to me "You know, I bet when I look at this film, you'll have called about 80% of the fouls... your partners aren't calling anything".

Was she right? Were you and your partners on different pages? To me, whether playing, coaching, or watching my kid, refs on different pages is maddening. I have watched games this season (to be fair, not many), where it was clear that one referee had a different threshhold for something. In one I recall, parents were going nuts about carrying -- to me it was obvious that what one ref thought was a carry (I think he called 4 or 5 of them) the other did not (he called none). Seen similar things with fouls where there appeared to be two different sets of criteria for fouls -- which makes it really hard for players to adjust. (As a coach, of any sport, I often told my players "that's what's been called all day, you have to adjust," but they can't do that when there is inconsistency between refs.

But on your question, I'd join the "ignore" camp, but also ponder after the game if there was something in the question that you can evaluate that might have hit on something that could make you a better ref/partner. (Mind you, I'm not saying there is, sometimes one ref is calling more fouls because that is just where they happen.)

[jTheUmp]

When she made the comment, I had just called my first foul in about 4 minutes of game time... during which time my partners had called a handful. And we were basically on the same page the entire way. I did have one stretch where I called about 6 in a row (in the first half), but that was more a function of where I was on the court relative to where the action was happening. The old 'call a foul as the lead, move to trail, become new lead, call a foul, move to trail, rinse, repeat' cycle that happens in NFHS mechanics.

Honestly, I have no idea what she was complaining about. I simply gave her an "I hear ya, coach" and took about 3 steps further on to the court (this was during a FT, so I was trail, tableside, near the 28-foot line), and the game finished without incident. Warning or serving T never even crossed my mind.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Mad at myself for not taking care of business enough

Sounds like you called a great game with what you were given. We're never going to be perfect, so I wouldn't get too mad about not being great enough to hold your own weight and carry partners who don't want to do their job.

Your situation sucked. Not you.

[BlueDevilRef]

My officiating experience is fast pitch heavy. I've done it for 11 years now. I would NEVER put up with chirping in softball the way we do in basketball. It's a different monster bc in basketball it is almost expected, it seems, of coaches to be jabbering all the time. Softball and baseball around here, coaches just don't do that. And again, it's a different type of action in that it's not constant like basketball. So to me, basketball is much worse than softball.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

My officiating experience is fast pitch heavy. I've done it for 11 years now. I would NEVER put up with chirping in softball the way we do in basketball. It's a different monster bc in basketball it is almost expected, it seems, of coaches to be jabbering all the time. Softball and baseball around here, coaches just don't do that. And again, it's a different type of action in that it's not constant like basketball. So to me, basketball is much worse than softball.

It's just because of the constant activity. Coaches have five guys on the floor apiece all moving around and doing something so they're naturally going to be louder and more active. In baseball/softball, usually it's just one or two players a side doing anything at a given moment and there are way fewer moving parts, ergo, less for a coach to have to talk about.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef

It's just because of the constant activity. Coaches have five guys on the floor apiece all moving around and doing something so they're naturally going to be louder and more active. In baseball/softball, usually it's just one or two players a side doing anything at a given moment and there are way fewer moving parts, ergo, less for a coach to have to talk about.

And very low tolerance for argument about the most common judgment call: balls and strikes

[biggravy]

As for your partners not taking care of business... curious how post season assignments are handled in your state? Do coaches vote? I've worked in a few states and it seems the states where coaches vote on post season officials have many who simply won't penalize unsporting behavior for fear of losing a vote.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by biggravy

As for your partners not taking care of business... curious how post season assignments are handled in your state? Do coaches vote? I've worked in a few states and it seems the states where coaches vote on post season officials have many who simply won't penalize unsporting behavior for fear of losing a vote.

In the SCHSL, postseason is determined entirely by a rating formula. Coaches votes do not factor into it, but peer ratings account for 25%. You can imagine the types of issues this causes.

However, officials only rate their peers for varsity games, so this game wouldn't have any effect.