Vid request Travel Iowa State and Texas A And M

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Cole4088

I've watched it a few times and can't clearly tell but it kind of looks as if he bounces it off the defenders right shoulder. That then would negate the travel right?

Yes it would negate the travel. Throwing the ball off of the other players shoulder allows him to go get it, start another dribble etc.

In the video the player jumps to shoot and simply drops the ball. At this moment there is nothing to call. When he catches it first the drop is considered a dribble. Illegal to start a dribble with pivot foot in air.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by BigCat

In the video the player jumps to shoot and simply drops the ball. At this moment there is nothing to call. When he catches it first the drop is considered a dribble. Illegal to start a dribble with pivot foot in air.

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by griblets

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it. It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it.

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

I agree. Giblets stated it was a violation when the ball hit the floor. It is not. Only when offensive player is first to touch it.

9.5 is the play where A1 dribbles, comes to a stop and then throws it off of opponents backboard. Opponents backboard is the same as floor. The play says violation by A1 provided he is first to touch it.

[just another ref]

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

We've been through this one before. I just don't agree w you. The case play9.5 the player has dribbled, stops and throws it off of opponents backboard. The backboard is considered same as floor. It isn't a violation until the player is first to touch it. The floor and backboard considered same. It isn't double dribble in that play when ball hits backboard.

I know you think it is a dribble because it might look like one. However, until the player touches it again it could still be a pass. Albeit a bad one. I think the subsequent first touch is required before you can call it a dribble. We'll continue to disagree on this one.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

This is the part I disagree with. I don't think the moment the ball hits the floor in the video it was, "by default" a dribble. It clearly wasn't a shot and frankly it clearly wasn't a pass as we normally know it. It also wasn't a dribble as we normally know it....he didn't push the ball down to the floor.

Frankly, I've been stuck in the air 3 and a half feet off the ground (or maybe a 1/4 inch)...and when I have dropped the ball I'm just trying to get rid of it before a foot hits the ground. The nearly exact play is in 4.44.3A(d). Player goes up with ball, defender touches it but does not prevent player from releasing ball. Player drops it to floor and touches it first after it bounces. Ruling--ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules...violation for starting dribble with pivot foot in air. I read this as it becomes a violation only when the player is first to touch the ball.

I agree with you that in a conventional situation...a dribble such as in Nevada's palming play or Cameron's example, that the player need not touch it again. I don't think though, in this play, that it becomes a dribble by default when it hits the floor. It's a live ball on the floor and, like in 4.44.3A(d), subsequent events and other rules will tell us what it was or was not. Thx

Also, AR 193 NCAAM says also that it is not a violation until the player is first to touch the ball.

[Nevadaref]

I had this same play occur last Saturday. I was Lead and the defender blocked the Trail's view of the action. Even though it was outside the 3pt line on the wing, I came with a late whistle and called the violation.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I had this same play occur last Saturday. I was Lead and the defender blocked the Trail's view of the action. Even though it was outside the 3pt line on the wing, I came with a late whistle and called the violation.

I hope it wasn't this same view or you made a bad call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

Incorrect. It is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands being pushed/dropped to the floor. A pass can also start the same way.

You just might not be able to tell which it is right away, but that doesn't change what it is. Sometimes you can tell what it is right away.

If it were any other way, a player who has released the ball on a dribble but hasn't yet touched it after the first bounce couldn't be considered to be in player control....and couldn't commit a player control foul. Do you really think a player who has released the ball on a dribble but before the first touch isn't in player control for that period?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by griblets

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

There's an ongoing discussion/argument on this. If he touches it first, it's a dribble. If someone else touches it first, it's a pass.

Some advocate waiting to make the call until he touches it based on that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Throwing the ball off of the other players shoulder allows him to go get it, start another dribble etc.

Are you sure?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Did he lose control because of the touch by an opponent? Did he lose control because of a pass or a fumble that was then touched by another player? Or did he lose control because he dropped the ball?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you sure?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Did he lose control because of the touch by an opponent? Did he lose control because of a pass or a fumble that was then touched by another player? Or did he lose control because he dropped the ball?

I'm sure. If I throw the ball and it hits you it is a pass. I can go get it, dribble again etc.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'm sure. If I throw the ball and it hits you it is a pass. I can go get it, dribble again ...

If it's a fumble touched by an opponent, or a deflected pass touched by an opponent, sure go ahead and dribble again, it's legal.

But what if it's not a fumble, nor is it a pass, rather, it's intentionally thrown against a opponent?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:

ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

BigCat: I see your point and would probably actually call it your way in a real game, but is the interpretation supported by the written rule? Ask the question, "Why did the player lose control?" Because he intentionally threw it away.