Vid request Travel Iowa State and Texas A And M

[Cole4088]

I've watched it a few times and can't clearly tell but it kind of looks as if he bounces it off the defenders right shoulder. That then would negate the travel right?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cole4088

I've watched it a few times and can't clearly tell but it kind of looks as if he bounces it off the defenders right shoulder. That then would negate the travel right?

No it would not. The fact he lifted a pivot foot to start a dribble is the violation. The ball hitting the floor is not a factor.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Cole4088

I've watched it a few times and can't clearly tell but it kind of looks as if he bounces it off the defenders right shoulder. That then would negate the travel right?

Yes it would negate the travel. Throwing the ball off of the other players shoulder allows him to go get it, start another dribble etc.

In the video the player jumps to shoot and simply drops the ball. At this moment there is nothing to call. When he catches it first the drop is considered a dribble. Illegal to start a dribble with pivot foot in air.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by BigCat

In the video the player jumps to shoot and simply drops the ball. At this moment there is nothing to call. When he catches it first the drop is considered a dribble. Illegal to start a dribble with pivot foot in air.

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by griblets

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it. It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it.

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

I agree. Giblets stated it was a violation when the ball hit the floor. It is not. Only when offensive player is first to touch it.

9.5 is the play where A1 dribbles, comes to a stop and then throws it off of opponents backboard. Opponents backboard is the same as floor. The play says violation by A1 provided he is first to touch it.

[just another ref]

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

[Nevadaref]

I had this same play occur last Saturday. I was Lead and the defender blocked the Trail's view of the action. Even though it was outside the 3pt line on the wing, I came with a late whistle and called the violation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

Incorrect. It is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands being pushed/dropped to the floor. A pass can also start the same way.

You just might not be able to tell which it is right away, but that doesn't change what it is. Sometimes you can tell what it is right away.

If it were any other way, a player who has released the ball on a dribble but hasn't yet touched it after the first bounce couldn't be considered to be in player control....and couldn't commit a player control foul. Do you really think a player who has released the ball on a dribble but before the first touch isn't in player control for that period?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by griblets

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

There's an ongoing discussion/argument on this. If he touches it first, it's a dribble. If someone else touches it first, it's a pass.

Some advocate waiting to make the call until he touches it based on that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Throwing the ball off of the other players shoulder allows him to go get it, start another dribble etc.

Are you sure?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Did he lose control because of the touch by an opponent? Did he lose control because of a pass or a fumble that was then touched by another player? Or did he lose control because he dropped the ball?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you sure?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Did he lose control because of the touch by an opponent? Did he lose control because of a pass or a fumble that was then touched by another player? Or did he lose control because he dropped the ball?

I'm sure. If I throw the ball and it hits you it is a pass. I can go get it, dribble again etc.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'm sure. If I throw the ball and it hits you it is a pass. I can go get it, dribble again ...

If it's a fumble touched by an opponent, or a deflected pass touched by an opponent, sure go ahead and dribble again, it's legal.

But what if it's not a fumble, nor is it a pass, rather, it's intentionally thrown against a opponent?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:

ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

BigCat: I see your point and would probably actually call it your way in a real game, but is the interpretation supported by the written rule? Ask the question, "Why did the player lose control?" Because he intentionally threw it away.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If it's a fumble touched by an opponent, or a deflected pass touched by an opponent, sure go ahead and dribble again, it's legal.

But what if it's not a fumble, nor is it a pass, rather, it's intentionally thrown against a opponent?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:

ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

BigCat: I see your point and would probably actually call it your way in a real game, but is the interpretation supported by the written rule? Ask the question, "Why did the player lose control?" Because he intentionally threw it away.

An opponent is "another player." Also there are times we have to wait to see what happens next to determine if something is a dribble or pass. I dribble across division line and pick up ball. There is no one on the other side of the court straight across from me. If I throw the ball there to no one it looks like a pass but if I run and get it after it bounces it actually was a dribble. If you are on my team and you run and get it or any other player on court does it is a pass.

There are times when we have to wait to see what happens next to know if a dribble or pass occurred. This video is an example of it. 4.44.3A(d) and Ar 193 support it.