Vid request Travel Iowa State and Texas A And M

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by griblets

The instant he started a dribble after lifting his pivot foot is when the travel occurs. It has nothing to do with him being first to touch it.

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it. It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

He jumped to shoot and then dropped it.

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

I agree. Giblets stated it was a violation when the ball hit the floor. It is not. Only when offensive player is first to touch it.

9.5 is the play where A1 dribbles, comes to a stop and then throws it off of opponents backboard. Opponents backboard is the same as floor. The play says violation by A1 provided he is first to touch it.

[just another ref]

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

We've been through this one before. I just don't agree w you. The case play9.5 the player has dribbled, stops and throws it off of opponents backboard. The backboard is considered same as floor. It isn't a violation until the player is first to touch it. The floor and backboard considered same. It isn't double dribble in that play when ball hits backboard.

I know you think it is a dribble because it might look like one. However, until the player touches it again it could still be a pass. Albeit a bad one. I think the subsequent first touch is required before you can call it a dribble. We'll continue to disagree on this one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

We've been through this one before. I just don't agree w you. The case play9.5 the player has dribbled, stops and throws it off of opponents backboard. The backboard is considered same as floor. It isn't a violation until the player is first to touch it. The floor and backboard considered same. It isn't double dribble in that play when ball hits backboard.

I know you think it is a dribble because it might look like one. However, until the player touches it again it could still be a pass. Albeit a bad one. I think the subsequent first touch is required before you can call it a dribble. We'll continue to disagree on this one.

If you can say it's a bad pass and let a teammate come over and pick it up, there's no reason you can't say it's a bad shot and let him pick it up himself.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

We've been through this one before. I just don't agree w you. The case play9.5 the player has dribbled, stops and throws it off of opponents backboard. The backboard is considered same as floor. It isn't a violation until the player is first to touch it. The floor and backboard considered same. It isn't double dribble in that play when ball hits backboard.

I know you think it is a dribble because it might look like one. However, until the player touches it again it could still be a pass. Albeit a bad one. I think the subsequent first touch is required before you can call it a dribble. We'll continue to disagree on this one.

You might want to read 4.15.4 Situation A which states that it is a violation when the player pushes the ball to the floor.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A second touch is not necessary to define a dribble. If a player releases the ball and, in the judgment of the official, it is not a try or a pass, it is, by default, a dribble. If this happens after the pivot is lifted, the violation occurs when the ball hits the floor.

This is the part I disagree with. I don't think the moment the ball hits the floor in the video it was, "by default" a dribble. It clearly wasn't a shot and frankly it clearly wasn't a pass as we normally know it. It also wasn't a dribble as we normally know it....he didn't push the ball down to the floor.

Frankly, I've been stuck in the air 3 and a half feet off the ground (or maybe a 1/4 inch)...and when I have dropped the ball I'm just trying to get rid of it before a foot hits the ground. The nearly exact play is in 4.44.3A(d). Player goes up with ball, defender touches it but does not prevent player from releasing ball. Player drops it to floor and touches it first after it bounces. Ruling--ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules...violation for starting dribble with pivot foot in air. I read this as it becomes a violation only when the player is first to touch the ball.

I agree with you that in a conventional situation...a dribble such as in Nevada's palming play or Cameron's example, that the player need not touch it again. I don't think though, in this play, that it becomes a dribble by default when it hits the floor. It's a live ball on the floor and, like in 4.44.3A(d), subsequent events and other rules will tell us what it was or was not. Thx

Also, AR 193 NCAAM says also that it is not a violation until the player is first to touch the ball.

[deecee]

This play, and video angle is tough to (1) see if the ball was released before the right foot left the ground and (2) if it was thrown off the defender.

From the T's standpoint it is also tough to see through the offensive player for defensive contact with the ball.

Tough call for the T, perhaps better call if any for the C or L. From everything I have seen I have a travel but this is not such a slam dunk.

[Nevadaref]

I had this same play occur last Saturday. I was Lead and the defender blocked the Trail's view of the action. Even though it was outside the 3pt line on the wing, I came with a late whistle and called the violation.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I had this same play occur last Saturday. I was Lead and the defender blocked the Trail's view of the action. Even though it was outside the 3pt line on the wing, I came with a late whistle and called the violation.

I hope it wasn't this same view or you made a bad call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It is not a dribble until he touches it again. If his teammate comes to get it, it is a pass. It has everything to do with him being first to touch it. 4.44.3,4.15.4c, 9.5.

What happens after the drop determines if it is a dribble, or pass.

Incorrect. It is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands being pushed/dropped to the floor. A pass can also start the same way.

You just might not be able to tell which it is right away, but that doesn't change what it is. Sometimes you can tell what it is right away.

If it were any other way, a player who has released the ball on a dribble but hasn't yet touched it after the first bounce couldn't be considered to be in player control....and couldn't commit a player control foul. Do you really think a player who has released the ball on a dribble but before the first touch isn't in player control for that period?