Staying In Our Primary

[Raymond]

If someone calls a foul or violation in my primary I do one of two things-- I thank them or when we get to the locker room, I will ask them what they saw and tell them what I saw. From there it's over.

Why anybody would get into arguments or get heated about it is beyond me.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

... calling out of your primary.

In regard to calling out of our primary, we are taught to: Be a little late (give your partner a chance to make the call). Be right (100% sure, not just 90% sure). Be needed (ant versus elephant).

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If someone calls a foul or violation in my primary I do one of two things-- I thank them or when we get to the locker room, I will ask them what they saw and tell them what I saw. From there it's over.

Why anybody would get into arguments or get heated about it is beyond me.

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exactly what i do too.

My philosophy on calling out of my PCA, is that it has to be a call that as a crew we need to get AND my partner had NO look at it. On grey area call, which I would consider this one, it's fair game. Get it right.

[johnsonboys03]

I agree staying within your primary is a good thing to try to do. Sometimes a call may be passed due to the way your partners called similar plays. Sometimes however I feel if you know that you know and it was a big enough foul then go get it. Our rules interp always talks about whales and minnows. If it was a hard (whale) foul get it. If it was a touch foul (minnow) let it be. I understand that philosophy but I also feel sometimes you know the c couldn't have had a good look so you get it.

I guess the bottom line for me is you need to trust your partners. When you do that you find your self reaching WAY less.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If someone calls a foul or violation in my primary I do one of two things-- I thank them or when we get to the locker room, I will ask them what they saw and tell them what I saw. From there it's over.

Why anybody would get into arguments or get heated about it is beyond me.

I literally do the exact same thing. I thank them when I know I got screened or straightlined on the play. I ask them if I "thought" I had something different. And even if I had something different, I want them to call things they clearly see.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Nothing irks me more than seeing a play clearly and deciding not to blow the whistle and then having a partner come override my decision by blowing his.

I've often asked why the judgment that the action is illegal by one official takes precedence over a judgment that it was legal by another.

[Rich]

I just assume the person saw something I didn't. Takes a lot to get me irked on a court. Last time was when a partner ignored my inbounds spots cause he was too lazy to take the ball to them.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nothing irks me more than seeing a play clearly and deciding not to blow the whistle and then having a partner come override my decision by blowing his.

You must get pissed off a lot then, that's a pretty common occurrence.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

You must get pissed off a lot then, that's a pretty common occurrence.

I have to agree with Nevada, and that doesn't usually come easy. I always pregame that if you have to reach into a primary then 2 things MUST be true

1. It's a call we have to get
AND
2. I don't have a look

IOW if I see my partner can see through both players and has a great look the only thing we can help with is a missed travel/violation. My philosophy is that if I have a good look and didn't blow the whistle it's for a reason.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In regard to calling out of our primary, we are taught to: Be a little late (give your partner a chance to make the call). Be right (100% sure, not just 90% sure). Be needed (ant versus elephant).

I was imagining a call that needed to be made and my assigner asking why I didn't call it. "It wasn't in my primary" isn't going to fly. Say... an obvious air-ball on a free throw by 5 feet and for some unknown reason the T/C don't get it. I'll call it as the L. Shouldn't ever happen, just sayin'.

Completely agree. Not only 100% sure, but also a call that needs to be made.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

I was imagining a call that needed to be made and my assigner asking why I didn't call it. "It wasn't in my primary" isn't going to fly. Say... an obvious air-ball on a free throw by 5 feet and for some unknown reason the T/C don't get it. I'll call it as the L. Shouldn't ever happen, just sayin'.

There is a difference, as far as i am concerned, with violations and fouls. One has to do with judgement and the other with black/white distinction. Missing a violation to me is more egregious as a call/no-call based on judgement, especially if your argument is "I didn't want to reach."

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If someone calls a foul or violation in my primary I do one of two things-- I thank them or when we get to the locker room, I will ask them what they saw and tell them what I saw. From there it's over.

If this response had a "Like" button I would click on it.
Plus, crew review of the video will confirm the validity of the out-of-primary whistle.
Aren't these expressions of support for the occasional "going out of primary" nothing more than an acknowledgement of the validity of the principles of "Secondary Coverage Area"?
Case in point from this past Saturday night -- verified as a great "come and get it" whistle from out of primary: Competitive matchup in the lane for which both Lead and Center were straightlined. Having pregamed this, the Trail who had an unobstructed view of the slot between players comes in with the needed call. And yes it was needed and both L and C appreciated it, given they each would have had nothing but a guess.
Monty McCutchen speaks of the 90/10 rule (my words for it). 90% of the time, we trust that our partner has a good look at what goes on there in his primary and is able to take care of business there and we don't really need to trump his call or no-call. But maybe about 10% of the time for whatever reason (straightlined, brain fart, distractions in PCA, etc.) a partner can be there with a late whistle to help out when a call is missed. And that's ok. Maybe he proportions aren't just right, but the principle seems sound.
This, of course, is waaaaaaaay different than that kind of hideous ballwatching that leads to unjustified whistles where they just plain don't belong.
Nice thread.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nothing irks me more than seeing a play clearly and deciding not to blow the whistle and then having a partner come override my decision by blowing his.

I've often asked why the judgment that the action is illegal by one official takes precedence over a judgment that it was legal by another.

This would irk just about anyone, but sometimes we all need help on big calls. Every official has had a play in their PCA where for some reason they had a horrible look and were grateful a partner came out with a whistle. Perhaps I should say should. I can think of one official that doesn't want you calling in his PCA for any reason no matter what even if he's convulsing on the floor. Dude also whines he can't get post-season games or rarely ever gets a 4A+ game.

[VaTerp]

My $0.02.

1) Unless you heard this directly from your assigner himself and/or know the exact context in which he made this statement I would take it with a grain of salt, even if the claims to be quoting your assinger "verbatim."

2) I'll defer to your judement on it "being too late" to rotate over but I have found that when there is a post player with the ball on the other side of the block I have regretted not going 10 X more than I have ever regretted going. I would say work on getting over there quicker and go.

And I think any of us would be bothered by someone consistently calling in our PCA but that shouldnt really ever happen.

Generally, as others have said, if someone comes and gets something then I either thank thim b/c I didnt see it for whatever reason OR if I think I had a really good look I will just ask them what they saw.

[jeremy341a]

It is your primary coverage area not your exclusive coverage area.