Leaving floor and starting dribble

[Shooter14]

NFHS

I've always been under the impression that when a player who is in possession feet leave the floor, the player MUST pass or shoot.

But the rulebook says something like (don't have it on me right now) "After establishing a pivot foot-a player who leaves the floor must pass or shoot".

A group of officials kicked around the scenario of a player who catches the ball, doesn't pivot and goes up for a shot can then still start a dribble because the pivot hasn't been established. I still believe this is a travel. How could I convince them otherwise? Or is it not a travel? The rulebook's wording is not very clear on this exact situation because all I can find is "after a pivot has been established" I can find nothing in the casebook.


Thanks!

[deecee]

IT has to do with the pivot foot leaving the floor. If the player has not started a dribble and the pivot foot leaves the floor the player can only pass or shoot the ball.

In their case it's a travel. Until a pivot foot is established both feet are considered a pivot in this application.

[Shooter14]

Is that supported by rule in the rulebook? What is the rule for "pivot"? I am just having trouble finding anything in the book that says "pivot" can mean both feet simultaneously.

Is there any where in the rule or case book that says both feet can be considered the pivot foot?

[Shooter14]

And again I agree it's a travel. But tough to convince my partners otherwise unless I can find better wording in the rule book.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

And again I agree it's a travel. But tough to convince my partners otherwise unless I can find better wording in the rule book.

A quick reading of 4-44-art3b explicitly says their scenario is a travel.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Is that supported by rule in the rulebook? What is the rule for "pivot"? I am just having trouble finding anything in the book that says "pivot" can mean both feet simultaneously.

Is there any where in the rule or case book that says both feet can be considered the pivot foot?

"If the player catches the ball with both feet on the floor, either can be the pivot." (or words to that effect)

So if the player jumps (and then starts a dribble), he's travelled twice.

Heck, there is a case play where *neither* foot can be the pivot, but travelling is called. Sorry that I don't have my books handy for a reference.

[Shooter14]

Ok I borrowed a book from my administrator.

Rule 4-44 Art 3b says:

"After coming to a stop AND ESTABLISHING A PIVOT FOOT, If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try"

The definition of a pivot "A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball STEPS ONCE, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor"

Again, my case is when a player catches and shoots without establishing a pivot foot. No where in the rule book can I find anything that says "both feet are the pivot" and no where in the casebook do I find this exact play. I do find similar plays in the casebook that says "A PIVOT FOOT IS ESTABLISHED" but nothing about straight up catch and shoot without establishing.

Again, I agree it's a travel, but it's impossible for me to convince my partners of that based on the ruling.

No case play in this year's case anyway, and the rule book says what I mentioned above.

[Shooter14]

I wish I could find wording in the book somewhere that says both feet can be the pivot foot, but I just can not find anything. I want to be able to justify why this is a travel but the book's wording doesn't help much.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Ok I borrowed a book from my administrator.

Rule 4-44 Art 3b says:

"After coming to a stop AND ESTABLISHING A PIVOT FOOT, If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try"

The definition of a pivot "A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball STEPS ONCE, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor"

Again, my case is when a player catches and shoots without establishing a pivot foot. No where in the rule book can I find anything that says "both feet are the pivot" and no where in the casebook do I find this exact play. I do find similar plays in the casebook that says "A PIVOT FOOT IS ESTABLISHED" but nothing about straight up catch and shoot without establishing.

Again, I agree it's a travel, but it's impossible for me to convince my partners of that based on the ruling.

No case play in this year's case anyway, and the rule book says what I mentioned above.

Bob posted the old interp from 1997. Your buddies are latching on to a loophole that would provide an advantage not intended by the rules. This is a travel by intent, as expressed in the old interpretation.