Coach appears to headbutt official

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by Adam

Agreed. I'm doubtful that this was his first violent outburst.

According to all I've read and heard, he has a wonderful reputation as a teacher. And, to be fair, I have not heard about previous incidents.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LRZ

According to all I've read and heard, he has a wonderful reputation as a teacher. And, to be fair, I have not heard about previous incidents.

Do you need a lot of incidents to make a judgment?

Peace

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Adam

Agreed. I'm doubtful that this was his first violent outburst.

Many otherwise normal and professional folks lose their $!! in unexpected ways in the emotion of a sporting event -- a kind of emotionally charged event that doesn't happen in the same way in a classroom. Of course this guy should be sanctioned in his role as coach, and the criminal charges are not inappropriate. But judging an entire teaching career on a single moment on a basketball court is gross overreaching, as is assuming there must have been other misbehavior. Without any indication of inappropriate behavior in a classroom, I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would be stressed about a kid in the class -- I wouldn't. (Nor would I have any problem whatsoever reffing his game unless this was a repeat incident. He f'd up. He probably knows it. He's probably embarrassed by it. And I think it's unlikely to be a repeat. [I also think the school was completely right to fire him as a coach; I just don't see it as necessarily a life-time ban.])

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Many otherwise normal and professional folks lose their $!! in unexpected ways in the emotion of a sporting event -- a kind of emotionally charged event that doesn't happen in the same way in a classroom. Of course this guy should be sanctioned in his role as coach, and the criminal charges are not inappropriate. But judging an entire teaching career on a single moment on a basketball court is gross overreaching, as is assuming there must have been other misbehavior. Without any indication of inappropriate behavior in a classroom, I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would be stressed about a kid in the class -- I wouldn't. (Nor would I have any problem whatsoever reffing his game unless this was a repeat incident. He f'd up. He probably knows it. He's probably embarrassed by it. And I think it's unlikely to be a repeat. [I also think the school was completely right to fire him as a coach; I just don't see it as necessarily a life-time ban.])

I am going to have to disagree with you big time. This incident revealed character? If someone does not want to be associated or be around that person, that is their choice. Yes he screwed up, but he did so in such a minimal level of importance. It is sports, not life or death. If you act that way in a sport, what will you do when you are involved in something much more important? If an official went up into the stands or assaulted a coach, we would not be talking about them staying as an official and in some cases might result in actions associated with their real job.

I have been on this site for years and have had people try to equate words with what someone should be viewed in their jobs. This guy actually assaulted someone in plain view of everyone. Remember the ESPN correspondent that that was slightly rude to a towing company employee when her car was towed? Well ESPN suspended her for that action. And she did not assault anyone. To me what he did took it too far and if the official had responded with physical action, we would be talking about both of them being in trouble. I have no sympathy for this guy at all and certainly do not get upset at those that want nothing to do with him as a result. He even got mad at the wrong person for the play in question. But after all we know how rational coaches can be when they do not get their way.

Peace

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do you need a lot of incidents to make a judgment?

Peace

I wasn't making a judgment at all, but merely stating facts in response to speculation.

[PaREF]

I just saw a clip from the DA's press conference and he seemed to be making light of the incident. He said that he felt that the coach was expressing his displeasure with the call but there was no intent to injure him. But then he went on to say that he basically "ran the guy over"! So, it's only harassment, not assault.

If I lived in that area of Pennsylvania (I live in Central Pa) I would spend the next election season campaigning against the current DA. What an embarrassment! I'll be writing the PIAA asking them to formally protest the action of the DA

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by PaREF

I just saw a clip from the DA's press conference and he seemed to be making light of the incident. He said that he felt that the coach was expressing his displeasure with the call but there was no intent to injure him. But then he went on to say that he basically "ran the guy over"! So, it's only harassment, not assault.

If I lived in that area of Pennsylvania (I live in Central Pa) I would spend the next election season campaigning against the current DA. What an embarrassment! I'll be writing the PIAA asking them to formally protest the action of the DA

So having him fired is the only thing that would make you happy?

[PaREF]

Whether he is fired or not is up to his employers. My point is that the DA said that there was no intent to injure, so he did not charge him with assault. I just don't understand how you can say that a head butt is not an intent to injure. Did you watch the clip from the press conference? When the DA talked about him "running over the guy" he acted like it was funny!

There are many discussions about how we as officials are protected from assault under the law but we have a (in my opinion) clear case of someone assaulting an official and he is not charged with assault but harassment. I'm not sure what would be necessary to constitute assault in Philadelphia. Being hit with a chair, kicking, punching? Does blood need to be spilled or is a broken bone OK? I guess every municipality has its own idea of what is or is not assault.

[Rich]

If a citizen did the exact same thing to a police officer, I guarantee he wouldn't be charged with harassment.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rich

If a citizen did the exact same thing to a DA, I guarantee he wouldn't be charged with harassment.

Heh.

[Refk]

So,

I've been reading all of the responses and haven't seen this asked......

What if the official had acted in self defense: put the coach on his tail or defended the push/headbutt or some other reaction. I'm sure all hell would have broken loose and there would be no debate what should happen to the official.

As a martial art instructor for 25 years in 2 different disciplines and a boxing background................ who knows how I would have responded. I hope I would have had restraint but I may not have............................I have an issue with any type of physical assault.

Just my 2 cents

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LRZ

According to all I've read and heard, he has a wonderful reputation as a teacher. And, to be fair, I have not heard about previous incidents.

He may well have such a reputation. I'm just saying I have a hard time believing this is the first time he's been this stressed.

I also have a hard time believing coaching a basketball team is more stressful than teaching special education students. If I had a special education child in his class, I would have pulled him as soon as I saw this video.

Originally Posted by Refhoop

So having him fired is the only thing that would make you happy?

I can't speak for him, but either that or jail time.

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Many otherwise normal and professional folks lose their $!! in unexpected ways in the emotion of a sporting event -- a kind of emotionally charged event that doesn't happen in the same way in a classroom. Of course this guy should be sanctioned in his role as coach, and the criminal charges are not inappropriate. But judging an entire teaching career on a single moment on a basketball court is gross overreaching, as is assuming there must have been other misbehavior. Without any indication of inappropriate behavior in a classroom, I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would be stressed about a kid in the class -- I wouldn't. (Nor would I have any problem whatsoever reffing his game unless this was a repeat incident. He f'd up. He probably knows it. He's probably embarrassed by it. And I think it's unlikely to be a repeat. [I also think the school was completely right to fire him as a coach; I just don't see it as necessarily a life-time ban.])

Sports creates tension, stress, that reveals character, IMO. I have a difficult time believing, however, that coaching a basketball game is more stressful than teaching special education students on a daily basis.

The charges they filed are a joke.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Adam

If I had a special education child in his class, I would have pulled him as soon as I saw this video.

As a parent of a special needs child, I can say that this may not be so simple. Sometimes there is only 1 Special Ed teacher for a whole school. So I'm glad they fired him - otherwise it would have been a difficult situation for the parents of the kids in his class, assuming he was the only Special Ed teacher in that school.

[PAlbc]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can't speak for him, but either that or jail time.

I'm so glad you can be judge and jury from watching a video clip. Maybe some distinct details would change your mind.

1. Official told admins immediately after the game that he fell because of being shocked and not the coach touching him. When asked if the coach did touch him, the response was "barely".
2. DA charged the coach off of the video evidence solely, as there were no physical injuries, complaint filed by the official, or any other physical evidence. If there hadn't been video he probably wouldn't have even been charged with harassment.
3. Despite your disbelief otherwise this is the first incident like this for the coach/teacher.

So the demonstrative move and contact ("barely" is above "none", which means it can't be tolerated) thoroughly warrant the coach fired from coaching. He shouldn't coach again, but that is up to future employers to decide.

That being said it falls far from something warranting losing his teaching job or getting jail time. I understand not wanting anyone to feel like they can do this to officials in the future, but unfortunately you don't get to crucify this coach's life to make that example.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

I'm so glad you can be judge and jury from watching a video clip. Maybe some distinct details would change your mind.

1. Official told admins immediately after the game that he fell because of being shocked and not the coach touching him. When asked if the coach did touch him, the response was "barely".
2. DA charged the coach off of the video evidence solely, as there were no physical injuries, complaint filed by the official, or any other physical evidence. If there hadn't been video he probably wouldn't have even been charged with harassment.
3. Despite your disbelief otherwise this is the first incident like this for the coach/teacher.

So the demonstrative move and contact ("barely" is above "none", which means it can't be tolerated) thoroughly warrant the coach fired from coaching. He shouldn't coach again, but that is up to future employers to decide.

That being said it falls far from something warranting losing his teaching job or getting jail time. I understand not wanting anyone to feel like they can do this to officials in the future, but unfortunately you don't get to crucify this coach's life to make that example.

I'm not judge and jury, I admit that. The DA already did that when he decided not to file assault charges. I'm no DA, so I won't pretend to judge him too harshly. But to consider this behavior anything less than "assault" or even "battery" is laughable. If he's right, the law needs to be changed.

Now I'll address your points.

1. This may take away the battery charge, but not the assault in my view. If a player throws a punch and doesn't connect, it's still fighting. As has been noted, if I threaten to kick your ass, that's classified as assault in most jurisdictions. If, instead of making a verbal threat, I attempt to head butt you, that's still assault even if you manage to avoid all but "barely."

2. The DA taking this lightly (as noted by those who have seen the video) doesn't help this for me, but I'll also note I place some of the blame on how this played out on the official. I know it's his decision whether to press charges, but I think there's an aspect of this that's bigger than this one event. It's his right, but he's doing other officials a disservice, IMO.

3. I never said it wasn't the first "incident." I fully believe that nothing like this has been reported. What I don't believe is that this is the first time he has lost his temper and reacted physically in anger. It may be, I'm just skeptical. More on this when I respond to Smitty in my next post.

As Rich noted above, if someone had done this to a DA or ADA, or a cop, he'd be seeing a lot more than "harassment" charges.

While I'm not all happy with the way this is playing out, I'll acknowledge I'm no where near close enough to the case to know all the details. I also have read up enough on famous "Injustices" to know there are normally details which render them much less of an injustice than people think.

In the end, there's a chance I'll come off the ledge and see the punishment he's received as sufficient. No guarantees, though.