Coach appears to headbutt official

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What does that mean? That one call made that big of a difference? I doubt that seriously.

It means he just made a blatantly false statement because Greene worked a regional final that year.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

It means he just made a blatantly false statement because Greene worked a regional final that year.

I certainly did not remember it that way either, but I was too lazy to look it up at the time. Glad you did. He worked the Final Four the year before too I believe.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

That was me. I keep thinking if I was the L on this play I probably T the HC once I see him that far onto the court - even before bothering to give the information on the initial foul. If he's down the sideline and complaining I can wait. Essentially, the HC got in the way of the L as the L moved towards the reporting area.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations.

And not once did I say we shouldn't. But there is also a way to do that without alluding to victim blaming. Relax and carry on.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope.

Actually, Greene's call was the correct call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.

I heard someone suggest in the media that the officials flopped. As if that matters when you are on the court and the only one that has the right to be on the court is the official in this situation.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.


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Don't know what you're talking about. Greene nailed that call.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SC Official

You should do your research and not just make blind statements because you're wrong again. He worked a regional final in 2014.

You're right. On the drive in to work this morning I remembered what I had pondered back then. It was that he did not get selected for the final four for the first time in many years that season. Did not make it last year, either.

I apologize for the inaccurate statement.

As to the call, we'll agree to disagree, but at a camp the following summer we broke down the play and the mechanics ad nausea. It took a while for the clinicians to convince me, but eventually I came to the realization that it was a block. Certainly as close to a 50-50 call there can be, I will give you that. If Tony rotates sooner and has turned and is standing still when the contact occurs, I believe the call, charge or not, would have been more credible. That's my biggest takeaway.

But don't forget that my original point was that Tony handled the assessment of the technicals perfectly.


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You're right. On the drive in to work this morning I remembered what I had pondered back then. It was that he did not get selected for the final four for the first time in many years that season. Did not make it last year, either.

I apologize for the inaccurate statement.

As to the call, we'll agree to disagree, but at a camp the following summer we broke down the play and the mechanics ad nausea. It took a while for the clinicians to convince me, but eventually I came to the realization that it was a block. Certainly as close to a 50-50 call there can be, I will give you that. If Tony rotates sooner and has turned and is standing still when the contact occurs, I believe the call, charge or not, would have been more credible. That's my biggest takeaway.

But don't forget that my original point was that Tony handled the assessment of the technicals perfectly.


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My memory of that play is that the call was correct but that the mechanics in covering the call were not the best. Also, the real problem was that a few minutes earlier a Duke player (Parker??) had run over a Syracuse defender on a fast break and that play was incorrectly called a block.

This, of course, has nothing to do with Boeheim's outrageous behavior, or the coach from PA.

[deecee]

Man this discussion is taking the cake for stupidity. A coach headbutts an official and the conversation goes to what ifs and what should haves to somehow justify the behavior, as if that is exucasble. Then we start drawing parallels to another T and how ALL t's should be administered because this one T was done so "perfectly".

Why does every post on this forum have to turn to fantastical what ifs and what I would do or they should have done. $h!t happens. Coach crossed the line. No excuse. End of story. A T called in a Syracuse game years ago has nothing to do with this.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

Man this discussion is taking the cake for stupidity. A coach headbutts an official and the conversation goes to what ifs and what should haves to somehow justify the behavior, as if that is exucasble. Then we start drawing parallels to another T and how ALL t's should be administered because this one T was done so "perfectly".

Why does every post on this forum have to turn to fantastical what ifs and what I would do or they should have done. $h!t happens. Coach crossed the line. No excuse. End of story. A T called in a Syracuse game years ago has nothing to do with this.

If you don't like the discussion, you don't have to post, right?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.




And not once did I say we shouldn't. But there is also a way to do that without alluding to victim blaming. Relax and carry on.

My comments were in response to several posts in this thread not just yours, which I read just fine. Who is the one being defensive here? I'm relaxed and hope you are as well.

And I'm also well aware of the world outside of this place but my only concerned in this forum is discussing the play from an officiating perspective. Again, I would think we could do that without conflating it with victim blaming.

Originally Posted by deecee

Man this discussion is taking the cake for stupidity. A coach headbutts an official and the conversation goes to what ifs and what should haves to somehow justify the behavior, as if that is exucasble. Then we start drawing parallels to another T and how ALL t's should be administered because this one T was done so "perfectly".

Why does every post on this forum have to turn to fantastical what ifs and what I would do or they should have done. $h!t happens. Coach crossed the line. No excuse. End of story. A T called in a Syracuse game years ago has nothing to do with this.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you think there is nothing to discuss from an officiating perspective then more power to you. All I will say is that is extrememly short sighted IMO.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by deecee

Man this discussion is taking the cake for stupidity. A coach headbutts an official and the conversation goes to what ifs and what should haves to somehow justify the behavior, as if that is exucasble. Then we start drawing parallels to another T and how ALL t's should be administered because this one T was done so "perfectly".

Why does every post on this forum have to turn to fantastical what ifs and what I would do or they should have done. $h!t happens. Coach crossed the line. No excuse. End of story. A T called in a Syracuse game years ago has nothing to do with this.

LOL
i didn't make the OP and link the video because i wanted to report the coach to Law & Order SVU!
i did it so we would talk about basketball situations. video is the absolute best tool for officials, and unfortunately, most guys still read from the case book every meeting and argue about where to have the end of the year chapter get together! but i digress....

i would have shared the video with or without the "headbutt" action. generating discussion from every aspect of this video to the initial call, to the technical, to even dissecting how the Center handled every second of that clip is why i shared it and why this forum exists (i hope). i login every day in hopes that every thread is meant to generate discussion and help us to stay actively involved in the rules and application of them during the season and never meant to ridicule officials, (even coaches or players) but rather point out areas that merit out attention.

i'm not trying to call you out, but if the only thing you took away from the video is that the coach was out of line, that's quite obvious, and you're missing the point of posting.

[zm1283]

I am not going to defend this clown coach in any way and I will not blame the officials for anything, but I'll be honest. The first thing I thought when I saw the video was the Trail should have waited and let the Lead handle the technical first. I too think the Lead was going for his whistle to give the technical when the Trail stepped in. I'm not saying he deserved the contact from the coach or excusing anything, but I agree with Terp that he could have handled it differently.

Even when you feel like you do everything right in a situation, there is usually always something to learn from watching the video.

[OKREF]

It doesn't matter who gives this clown a T. Lead, center, or trail. He deserved one immediately, and if I'm the lead I could care less that the trail stuck him. I wouldn't even care if there were 3 whistles for a T on this play.