Can't think straight...need assistance

[egj13]

NFHS rules

1. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 before the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

or

2. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 after the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

Please give me the correct call in either situation...much appreciated.

[Raymond]

After the try ends in #2 the ball is dead.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by egj13

NFHS rules

1. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 before the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

or

2. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 after the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

Please give me the correct call in either situation...much appreciated.

If whistle is before the ball is out of shooters hand, shot does not count. A2 goes to the line and shoots "1 and 1". If whistle is as ball is in flight, count the basket and A2 shoots "1 and 1". I'm not sure about the meaning of "after the try ends, or before the try ends" in relation to the question.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

If whistle is before the ball is out of shooters hand, shot does not count. A2 goes to the line and shoots "1 and 1". If whistle is as ball is in flight, count the basket and A2 shoots "1 and 1". I'm not sure about the meaning of "after the try ends, or before the try ends" in relation to the question.

Are you sure? Please, take a look at 6-7-7 EXCEPTION. I have quite a different perception of the scenario.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

If whistle is before the ball is out of shooters hand, shot does not count. A2 goes to the line and shoots "1 and 1". If whistle is as ball is in flight, count the basket and A2 shoots "1 and 1". I'm not sure about the meaning of "after the try ends, or before the try ends" in relation to the question.

Before the try ends refers to the ball is still in flight...which is how I remember the play happening. One of my partners thought it was after the ball went through the hoop or after the try had ended.

We counted the hoop and shot 1 and 1...but it wasn't without argument.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by egj13

NFHS rules

1. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 before the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

or

2. A1 drives to basket and as he puts the shot up, B2 is whistled for a pushing foul against A2 after the try ends. Ball goes in, its the 7th team foul on B.

Please give me the correct call in either situation...much appreciated.

1. The basket if good will count then you adjudicate the foul on B2 -- if in the bonus you shoot bonus, or if not then A's ball OOB spot closest to foul. In this case count the bucket then 1&1.

2. If contact occurs after the ball goes in it should be ignored or T as ball is dead until at disposal.

In any case once a shooter begins his shooting motion the shot attempt will stand unless the shooter commits a charge.

[BigCat]

Continuous Motion applies if a defender fouls the shooter or any other offensive player. If the shooter is in the act of shooting and the defense fouls, anybody, the basket will count. If another offensive player commits a foul before the shot is released the ball is dead immediately.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

If whistle is before the ball is out of shooters hand, shot does not count. A2 goes to the line and shoots "1 and 1". If whistle is as ball is in flight, count the basket and A2 shoots "1 and 1". I'm not sure about the meaning of "after the try ends, or before the try ends" in relation to the question.

I know this was shown to be wrong in another post, and I know the OP ultimately confirmed that the ball had been released on the try when the contact by B2 occurred, but I think it's important to directly quote Hartsy as incorrect. If A1 has begun the habitual motion and the defense commits a foul before the ball is released, A1 still gets continuous motion. Continuous motion, though applied to a foul on the shooter 99% of the time, does not have to result solely from a foul on the shooter. Any defender who commits a foul (including a technical foul) can activate the provision of continuous motion. This is a basic concept and it's disappointing to see it articulated incorrectly in this forum.

Originally Posted by deecee

2. If contact occurs after the ball goes in it should be ignored or T as ball is dead until at disposal.

Agree. And if you blew a whistle for a common foul here, get together as a crew, confirm it was a common foul and that it should have been ignored, and then explain the inadvertent whistle to the coaches and move on. No big deal if this happens every once in a blue moon. Just don't make a habit of calling fouls after the ball has gone through.

Originally Posted by deecee

In any case once a shooter begins his shooting motion the shot attempt will stand unless the shooter commits a charge.

Or unless a teammate of the shooter commits a foul before the try is released!

[Hartsy]

I know this was shown to be wrong in another post, and I know the OP ultimately confirmed that the ball had been released on the try when the contact by B2 occurred, but I think it's important to directly quote Hartsy as incorrect. If A1 has begun the habitual motion and the defense commits a foul before the ball is released, A1 still gets continuous motion. Continuous motion, though applied to a foul on the shooter 99% of the time, does not have to result solely from a foul on the shooter. Any defender who commits a foul (including a technical foul) can activate the provision of continuous motion. This is a basic concept and it's disappointing to see it articulated incorrectly in this forum.

I read here a lot and talk rules with other officials quite a bit. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that continuous motion applies as you describe. Looks like I have some research to do. Anyone else care to chime in? Thankfully, as you say, this is a very rare event.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Anyone else care to chime in?

Sure. Those who claim that continuous motion applies to any foul by the defense (not just on the shooter) are correct.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

I know this was shown to be wrong in another post, and I know the OP ultimately confirmed that the ball had been released on the try when the contact by B2 occurred, but I think it's important to directly quote Hartsy as incorrect. If A1 has begun the habitual motion and the defense commits a foul before the ball is released, A1 still gets continuous motion. Continuous motion, though applied to a foul on the shooter 99% of the time, does not have to result solely from a foul on the shooter. Any defender who commits a foul (including a technical foul) can activate the provision of continuous motion. This is a basic concept and it's disappointing to see it articulated incorrectly in this forum.

I read here a lot and talk rules with other officials quite a bit. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that continuous motion applies as you describe. Looks like I have some research to do. Anyone else care to chime in? Thankfully, as you say, this is a very rare event.

Any foul by the DEFENSE does not take away a shot attempt (whether or not the ball has been released yet).

A foul by the offense (NOT THE SHOOTER) would NOT take away a shot IF the ball has been released.

This may be rare but it happens about once a year for me (that's about 1 in 30-40 games). Usually its a defender running through a screen or an illegal screen away from the ball.

[Hartsy]

I stand corrected. 2015-16 Case Book 6.7 Situation D.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

I know this was shown to be wrong in another post, and I know the OP ultimately confirmed that the ball had been released on the try when the contact by B2 occurred, but I think it's important to directly quote Hartsy as incorrect. If A1 has begun the habitual motion and the defense commits a foul before the ball is released, A1 still gets continuous motion. Continuous motion, though applied to a foul on the shooter 99% of the time, does not have to result solely from a foul on the shooter. Any defender who commits a foul (including a technical foul) can activate the provision of continuous motion. This is a basic concept and it's disappointing to see it articulated incorrectly in this forum.

I read here a lot and talk rules with other officials quite a bit. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that continuous motion applies as you describe. Looks like I have some research to do. Anyone else care to chime in? Thankfully, as you say, this is a very rare event.

Not much research is needed, just look up the definition of continuous motion.

4-11 ART. 1

Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

[Hartsy]

Beat ya by 3min BadNewsRef. I hope this happens tonight. I'll be on top of it!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Beat ya by 3min BadNewsRef. I hope this happens tonight. I'll be on top of it!

What I hope is that a defender violates the free throw line without touching the shooter and the free throw shooter then pushes the defender while the ball is in flight.