Sub T or Team T?

[bainsey]

Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?

[billyu2]

[QUOTE=bainsey;973590]Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?[/QUOTE


I think you would go with the team tech. 10-2-2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICALsays a sub shall not enter the court without being beckoned EXCEPT between quarters and during timeouts. So it should be a team tech for six on the court.

[BatteryPowered]

[QUOTE=billyu2;973594]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I think you would go with the team tech. 10-2-2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICALsays a sub shall not enter the court without being beckoned EXCEPT between quarters and during timeouts. So it should be a team tech for six on the court.

Possibly followed closely be a unsportsmanlike on the sub, the coach or both when they pitch their fit...even though they were wrong.

[deecee]

Are these incidents like a POE this year or what? Since when has subbing between quarters been such an issue or paid attention to?

Usually at TO's this does come up from time to time when a sub checks in after the warning horn but I don't think tables really "pay" that much attention during the game if a player doesn't check in.

In any case this would be a team T for 10-1-6 or possible 10-1-9.

10-2 would only apply before the ball becomes live.

[BigCat]

[QUOTE=billyu2;973594]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?[/QUOTE


I think you would go with the team tech. 10-2-2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICALsays a sub shall not enter the court without being beckoned EXCEPT between quarters and during timeouts. So it should be a team tech for six on the court.

The section you have cited assumes the player has reported before the warning horn. He then doesn't have to be beckoned. When he is late he has to be beckoned at next opportunity. Also, the official put the ball on the floor. That is "at disposal" and ball is live. Quarter starts then even though clock hasn't run.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I watch the subs like a hawk on timeouts.If they're at the X before the timeout I'll say twice "Subs are in on the timeout,Subs are in on the timeout." Reminds me that I have subs that were there at the timeout being granted.If subs come and check in during the timeout I'll just say go ahead.Had two varsity officials about 2 weeks ago let subs in who had checked in at the 2nd horn

[deecee]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

I watch the subs like a hawk on timeouts.If they're at the X before the timeout I'll say twice "Subs are in on the timeout,Subs are in on the timeout." Reminds me that I have subs that were there at the timeout being granted.If subs come and check in during the timeout I'll just say go ahead.Had two varsity officials about 2 weeks ago let subs in who had checked in at the 2nd horn

What do you do if no one checks in but subs go in the game? Do you KNOW the 5 that came off the floor and the new 5 that are coming on the floor? Are you able to catch this before the ball goes live?

[billyu2]

[QUOTE=BigCat;973600]

Originally Posted by billyu2

The section you have cited assumes the player has reported before the warning horn. He then doesn't have to be beckoned. When he is late he has to be beckoned at next opportunity. Also, the official put the ball on the floor. That is "at disposal" and ball is live. Quarter starts then even though clock hasn't run.

Yep, I thought of that as well but too late. On the other hand, 4-34-3: if entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. So, are we now back to six players on the court? Team tech?

[deecee]

[QUOTE=billyu2;973608]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Yep, I thought of that as well but too late. On the other hand, 4-34-3: if entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. So, are we now back to six players on the court? Team tech?

You only have 6 on the court IF THERE IS 6 on the court.

[BigCat]

[QUOTE=billyu2;973608]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Yep, I thought of that as well but too late. On the other hand, 4-34-3: if entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. So, are we now back to six players on the court? Team tech?

Billy, I'm not sure how you got my name above your quote...above


If a substitute runs onto the floor during a live ball without being beckoned you have until the ball becomes live after first dead ball to penalize for not being beckoned. There's a case play in rule 10. In this Op the ball was live when the player ran in. Technically, if you catch it before the time limit and you know which player came in it is a sub tech. If you don't know which player ran in you have the team tech for 6 on floor.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by deecee

Are these incidents like a POE this year or what? Since when has subbing between quarters been such an issue or paid attention to?

Usually at TO's this does come up from time to time when a sub checks in after the warning horn but I don't think tables really "pay" that much attention during the game if a player doesn't check in.

In any case this would be a team T for 10-1-6 or possible 10-1-9.

10-2 would only apply before the ball becomes live.

You let subs in if they check in after the first horn?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?

If you see the kid come in from the table without being beckoned, it's a player T (a sub T actually). If you don't, and you end up with six on the court, it's a team T.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Are these incidents like a POE this year or what? Since when has subbing between quarters been such an issue or paid attention to?

Substitutions between quarters was a POE a couple of seasons ago.

Originally Posted by BigCat

If a substitute runs onto the floor during a live ball without being beckoned you have until the ball becomes live after first dead ball to penalize for not being beckoned. There's a case play in rule 10. In this Op the ball was live when the player ran in. Technically, if you catch it before the time limit and you know which player came in it is a sub tech. If you don't know which player ran in you have the team tech for 6 on floor.

I'm going to challenge you to provide the case play giving your stated time frame to catch a substitute coming onto the court.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Substitutions between quarters was a POE a couple of seasons ago.


I'm going to challenge you to provide the case play giving your stated time frame to catch a substitute coming onto the court.

10.2.2. It's out of thin air but it is there....

NOT REPORTING-NOT BEING BECKONED

10.2.2
During a live ball, and with the clock running, Substitute A6 enters the Court.RULING A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

[Nevadaref]

Thanks, I had this confused with 10.1.6 (b).